Canadian Chartered Banks

[Yuri]

After having work for 16 years at Canadian Chartered Banks, I have one thing to say: BANKS SUCK, Just Venting, don't mind me.

[Meister]

You must be this annoying ING guy who keeps blabbing 'and save YOUR money' in some fake Dutch accent.:D

[someone]

After having work for 16 years at Canadian Chartered Banks, I have one thing to say: BANKS SUCK, Just Venting, don't mind me.
They also suck if you're a customer.

[WinterHawk]

Spent over 5 years at TD and then over 16 years with the CIBC. If your a senior guy, it's golden. Just an average slob doing your job, you're just a piece of meat, easily replaced.

Their all crooks.

[fuji]

The banks are just doing their job. Their job is to slowly transfer all of your money to the company account.

[goodtime]

I'm pissed about work! Business now a days don't care for their employees, just financial bottomline. My last place laid-off many long terms employees, in their 20+ service, I gave 13+.

My current place is no better with do more with less. Part of why I'm on Terb these hours. Work is keeping me up at nights. It's ruining my holidays. :mad: I need another massage. Goodtime applying to be MPA massage dummy.

[Paladin]

Businesses do not exist to satisfy their employees. While the well-being of the employees are an important consideration, the priority must be given to the financial bottom line and providing the shareholders with an acceptable return on investment. Employees are replaceable comodities.

The Canadian chartered banks have not performed satisfactorily in recent years. Their return on investment has been mediocre at best. Their employees are not among the highest in productivity and their fixed osts are too high. These banks have to do much better to earn more money for their shareholders.

[superquad1968]

Businesses do not exist to satisfy their employees. While the well-being of the employees are an important consideration, the priority must be given to the financial bottom line and providing the shareholders with an acceptable return on investment. Employees are replaceable comodities.

The Canadian chartered banks have not performed satisfactorily in recent years. Their return on investment has been mediocre at best. Their employees are not among the highest in productivity and their fixed osts are too high. These banks have to do much better to earn more money for their shareholders.

Can I have some of what you're smoking?

One, yes we KNOW that the satisfaction of our employees ADDS to our bottom line. Why would they pay for me to obtain my CHRP at a cost of $10,000 including giving me a loave of abscence for 8 months to finish all of the required educational courses? Plus are willing for me to obtain my MBA and it's related costs. No, we hate our employees. :rolleyes:

Checked our revenue lately? We make over a $1,000,000,000 per quarter. And virtually every Canadian equity fund has bank stock.

While I have been doing the educational coimponent I've been talking to some of my co-horts and to a person I've been amazed how well we at RBC do things. From pension, to pay (not excessive but fair), to organizational change, virtually everything we do is above the industry standard.

[goodtime]

Big 4 would do alright if not for the bad loans, investments, and buy-out packages for Senior management.

[MarkII]

Spent over 5 years at TD and then over 16 years with the CIBC. If your a senior guy, it's golden. Just an average slob doing your job, you're just a piece of meat, easily replaced.

Their all crooks.

Thats a lot of time.

I have to wonder..and this is not meant as a personal attack...with that amount of time invested...why did you stay? Without being promoted upward...what was the motivation to remain?

For me personally..no promotion when I know my work is top rate...I'm gone.

It sounds like you were punting for the pension and got booted before it came into effect.

As I said this is not an attack..but i often wonder why people stay in jobs for 16 years with no promotion. Is it not apparent that if they have not promoted you, you're the first to go in cutbacks?

M2

[xarir]

I think it's a bit different at Canadian banks. I look at my friends who are at the banks, and arguably they can say they are doing a different job now than they were 5 - 10 years ago. But is this a promotion or just a different set of responsibilities?

My friends are all obviously making more $$$ now than they were when they started with the bank. Some of them are actually making a lot. But oddly, it's questionable if they've actually been moving "up" in the system. I guess I measure the "senority" of a role by the consequences of a mistake. If the CEO makes a mistake, the company very well could be farked for good. If a guy in the mailroom makes a mistake, the outbound mail is a day late. (Which could have dire consequences in some cases, but you get the point.) My bank friends seem to be more or less at the same level on the mistake scale. When they started, a mistake would lead to a slap on the wrist and an admonishment not to do it again. From my outside persepctive, it seems nothing has changed so it's difficult for me (and my friends by their own admission) to see their roles as promotions.

[WinterHawk]

Thats a lot of time.

I have to wonder..and this is not meant as a personal attack...with that amount of time invested...why did you stay? Without being promoted upward...what was the motivation to remain?

For me personally..no promotion when I know my work is top rate...I'm gone.

It sounds like you were punting for the pension and got booted before it came into effect.

As I said this is not an attack..but i often wonder why people stay in jobs for 16 years with no promotion. Is it not apparent that if they have not promoted you, you're the first to go in cutbacks?

M2

Who said I never got promoted? I worked on 5 different project teams over a period of 16 years. I left as a Project Leader, when there was a major shake up and ALL of our Business Analyst were given the boot. Too much wasted money, bad decisions, in-fighting and favouritism. Senior management got promoted up and out before their decisions would be shown as questionable.

I had one boss who insisted that a project I had originally scoped as being done in 1.5 years to be done in 1 year. After the staff cuts and changes to what we would deliver she got promoted up and out after 6 months. Our clients did a through review of what would now be delivered, said it was unacceptable, went back to my original design and project plan, and I delived on time and budget against my original design. By giving my clients what that needed, I kept my job and saved the jobs of those working for me.

Couldn't stomach it any longer and when offered to opportunity to leave with a VERY nice package, I took it. I've worked in the IT field for IBM and then TD and CIBC for over 20 years. Now depending on the type of job you do, YOU DON'T WANT a promotion. I was happiest as a PROGRAMMER, didn't like to review and possibly fire staff because I had worked shoulder to shoulder with a lot of people for years. Canadian Banks were the best places to do business and to work for when they had staff that cared, that stayed on the job because they wanted to make a difference for their customers and "the bank". They started to go down hill when that short sighted asswholes who were there only to line their own pockets got in positions of influence. It use to be that the CEO originally started out humbly as a Teller fresh out of High-School. That kind of dedication is going by the way side. It's someone who is only there as a steping stone in their resume. Do you think ENRON would have happened to a career Banker, it happen when you had a Stock Broker running the show. $3,000,000.000 was lost by the CIBC and shareholders for the bonus they made. And who do you think will have to pay for that "little boo boo"? The staff and customers left behind. Canadian Banks became the envy of the world because they realized they were just custodians of other peoples money, their hopes and dreams. Now they've evolved to the point where they have the opnion that it's their money, and you have no right to it.

You stay with a company because of the people you work with, and incidently how well you get paid. Being in IT meant for the most part that I got paid quite well. Still do.

Canadian Banks MAKE MONEY because you have no where else to go. I have a cousin working for TD/Canada Trust and she couldn't go to her aunts furneal because it was as aunt by marriage, i.e. her husbands, mother's sister. Now how FUCKED is that?

[Yuri]

Can I have some of what you're smoking?


While I have been doing the educational coimponent I've been talking to some of my co-horts and to a person I've been amazed how well we at RBC do things. From pension, to pay (not excessive but fair), to organizational change, virtually everything we do is above the industry standard.


Sorry to disagree Superquad, but I am with RBC currently, and I have never been so mistreated as I have with my association with RBC. All Banks I am afraid are the same, Employees are "meat-on-the-hoof", and Senior Mgt use us as pawns to further their Careers. That is a fact.

[onthebottom]

The Canadian banks need to be allowed to merge and other banks come in to compete. The big 4 have the market share they have and, while banking is a very profitable business, they can't really grow. The fact that you pay pre-payment penalities for pre-paying a mortgage is silly - just an oligopoly with pricing control.

There are more banking assets HQed in North Carolina then in all of Canada!

OTB

[superquad1968]

Sorry to disagree Superquad, but I am with RBC currently, and I have never been so mistreated as I have with my association with RBC. All Banks I am afraid are the same, Employees are "meat-on-the-hoof", and Senior Mgt use us as pawns to further their Careers. That is a fact.

Different managers I suppose. But you gotta love RESSOP. Where else can you get a 50% return on investment right off the bat. :)

[poorboy]

Different managers I suppose. But you gotta love RESSOP. Where else can you get a 50% return on investment right off the bat. :)

Then how about a job in your area where the employees are treated well? You sound like you're important enough to make hiring decisions. I already have my MBA, so you won't have to send me off on educational leave. It should be easy to find a place for me. I have several years experience in financial analysis.

If you can do that for me, I'll believe you, but until that time, I'm going to have to side with Yuri and Winterhawk that the banks are a bad place to work because it matches my experiences to date.

[Gord's Bro]

. . .I've avoided banks (almost*) completely.

For personal banking, I use a credit union, where the profits come back to me as shares, loan discounts, etc.

The downside is there's only one "branch" where I can get the one-on-one contact. Even that's not too much of a concern in this age of telephone and (better still!!) electronic banking.

And, if I really get pissed off at them, I can attend the annual meeting or even volunteer for the board of directors!!! Try the latter with CIBC and the other big banks!!!

Gord's Bro.

* My only "traditional" banking is to hold a Sotiabank Value Visa which, at 10.75% (or so), is a lot lower than most credit cards.

[emvee]

Sorry to disagree Superquad, but I am with RBC currently, and I have never been so mistreated as I have with my association with RBC. All Banks I am afraid are the same, Employees are "meat-on-the-hoof", and Senior Mgt use us as pawns to further their Careers. That is a fact.

Well said. My experience has been that loyalty and obedience ALWAYS wins out over ability and experience. I bet someone at CIBC spoke up when they saw the ENRON thing going offside and was either shown the door or got a really shitty review saying he wasn't a team player.

[nervous]

Remember that the Canadian Banking system is a fed chartered club that was designed to fuel economic growth, mainly in the natural resources sector, in a country that is sparcly populated. The system has worked amazingly well and continues to work despite the util incompetence of the federal government to manage the economy. If not for the power and stability of the banks Canada would be a third world country.

And yes I worked at a bank for 8+ before leaving (on my own!) years and my wife for 23+ and still going, so I know how badly they treat the average employee. :cool:

[rubmeister100]

The Canadian chartered banks have not performed satisfactorily in recent years. Their return on investment has been mediocre at best. Their employees are not among the highest in productivity and their fixed osts are too high. These banks have to do much better to earn more money for their shareholders.

Ever considered that banks are the best cookers of the books?

I bet THEY don't even know how much they really make with all their accounting hanky panky and rule interpretation. Their first priority (after fetherin thier own ness) is to minimize tax. I bet they don't even knw how much they really make, the calculators don't have that manynumbers!:D

[train]

There are more banking assets HQed in North Carolina then in all of Canada!

OTB

What possible relevence is this statement to the discussion about whether Banks are profit orientated at the expense of employee welfare?

Lol Actually the Royal Bank of Canada has a decent size operation in Hillbilly-north/tarheels land:D . Like any good Canadian business the US market is regarded as an expansion opportunity.

CIT mastered the pre-payment penalties and fees trap so this is not a Canadian concept.

The concept of long-term fund matching and rate volitility are what cause the penalties. Closed mortgage lending is , in simplistic terms matching long-term deposits such as GIC's with long term loans and making money on the spread. The trick, from the bank's perspective, is to make sure both sides are balanced. So it's hardly "silly" from their perspectice.

Consumers have the open mortgage option with no penalties at slightly higher rates.

[train]

Ever considered that banks are the best cookers of the books?

I bet THEY don't even know how much they really make with all their accounting hanky panky and rule interpretation. Their first priority (after fetherin thier own ness) is to minimize tax. I bet they don't even knw how much they really make, the calculators don't have that manynumbers!:D


Bet you are wrong.

[booboobear]

. If the CEO makes a mistake, the company very well could be farked for good. If a guy in the mailroom makes a mistake, the outbound mail is a day late. (Which could have dire consequences in some cases, but you get the point.)

There are a lot of exceptions to this rule . If a mechanic for an airline or the pilot makes a mistake it could cost hundreds of lives . In terms of day to day responsibility no CEO has that much responsibility.

[RTRD]

If a mechanic for an airline or the pilot makes a mistake it could cost hundreds of lives . In terms of day to day responsibility no CEO has that much responsibility.

While the consequences would probably not be as IMMEDIATE as in the case of airline pilots....there are LOTS of CEO (Pharmacutical Industry comes to mind...) who make decisions that will literally affect thousands of lives.

[booboobear]

While the consequences would probably not be as IMMEDIATE as in the case of airline pilots....there are LOTS of CEO (Pharmacutical Industry comes to mind...) who make decisions that will literally affect thousands of lives.


The difference is that using your Pharmacutical ceo as an example he has numerous people advising him and time to research his decision. A pilot in a crisis hasn't got the luxury of time and it his his hands alone that must fly the plane.
In reality front line people are more responsible for a companies success than they get credit for.
If everyone at Wendys was rude to you and anyone else that went there they would go out of business tomorrow regardless of how good their CEO was,

[onthebottom]

What possible relevence is this statement to the discussion about whether Banks are profit orientated at the expense of employee welfare?

No relevance, just a fun fact for an industry the rewards being big and used to be big.....



Lol Actually the Royal Bank of Canada has a decent size operation in Hillbilly-north/tarheels land:D . Like any good Canadian business the US market is regarded as an expansion opportunity.

I'm just suggesting that it works both ways, and that if you let your banks merge they would be better prepared to complete globally.



CIT mastered the pre-payment penalties and fees trap so this is not a Canadian concept. I don't know about that but it's a very old concept.



The concept of long-term fund matching and rate volitility are what cause the penalties. Closed mortgage lending is , in simplistic terms matching long-term deposits such as GIC's with long term loans and making money on the spread. The trick, from the bank's perspective, is to make sure both sides are balanced. So it's hardly "silly" from their perspectice.

It is a silly practice because the banks swap out this risk. They already "know" thru prepayment models that you will prepay, they price the loan that way, then they screw you on the back end as well because they have pricing power. Believe me, I understand the matched funding theories (all too well as I've spent many years with Treasures and ALM teams in North American and Asia Pacific review best practices for FTP (funds transfer pricing) and prepayment modeling).

OTB

[onthebottom]

Ever considered that banks are the best cookers of the books?

Cookers might be a strong term, but they do "smooth" earnings with loan loss reserves - I think the SunTrust CFO in Atlanta just took it in the shorts for this. In a SOX world this is a no-no.



I bet THEY don't even know how much they really make with all their accounting hanky panky and rule interpretation. Their first priority (after fetherin thier own ness) is to minimize tax. I bet they don't even knw how much they really make, the calculators don't have that manynumbers!:D

They do know how much they make, but it is the rare bank that knows why, and can accurately predict (thus the earnings smoothing mentioned above). It's a bear of an industry to measure and, how do I say this nicely, not filled with the sharpest knives in the drawer if you know what I mean. There are smart people with no vision, IT geeks who just want to build stuff and lending officers, I've meet VERY few bankers who know what they are doing and why....

OTB

[nervous]

What is RESSOP?

Royal Employee Shares Savings Oportunity Plan.:eek: