No Luck Selling House [Archive]

wikiwild

10-30-2005, 02:40 PM

A few weeks have gone by and I've had no luck in selling, only 2 showings so far..... I lowered the price and that's when the buyers showed up .... got me wondering if there's a report from mls.ca that shows price changes etc .... anyone know .... the agent wanted a price WAY LOWER than i thought was right

Agent is probably right. They have a nose for these things.

Oh, and yes, the buyer's agent will know if a price was recently reduced. The listing shows old price and new price, probably not on MLS.ca though, but on the toronto real estate board's system.

Svend

10-30-2005, 02:44 PM

Agents are knowledgeable, but their main goal is a sale - not necessarily at the best possible price. Use them, but also keep your own goal in mind.
There was a post showing that agents get a better value for their own home, which shows that when their self interest is on the line, they work a bit harder.

WhOiSyOdAdDy?

10-30-2005, 02:45 PM

3 weeks is not a lot of time. Was it your agent or the buyer's that thought it should be much lower?

Some agents just want an easy sale, so that they do not have to work very hard for their percentage.

sarasota

10-30-2005, 02:52 PM

I recall reading that a well priced house can or should take from three to six months to sell.

Dizzle

10-30-2005, 03:09 PM

If you have ever bought a house, you know when you're looking which ones are fairly priced and which ones are too much money. It's not the agent that decides... it's the buyers. Also, there is a daily hot sheet that reports price changes to the agents, so they are up to date. A well priced house should sell within a month in these present market conditions.

Good luck

Vancouver Femme Fatale

10-30-2005, 03:11 PM

Have you looked around the neighbourhood to see what else is listed and at what price? If folks are going around in the general vicinity and seeing similar houses at lower prices, they're going to expect gold-plated dancing girls at your place.

Are you living in the place? Presentation is incredibly important. Watch cable shows like the House Doctor, Sell this House, and Property Ladder. Simple things like paint colour changes, furniture editing, and curb appeal can tremendously affect what you'll get and how long you'll wait to get it. If Joe and Joanne Random just can't imagine living in your space, or see outdated appliances and cabinets in your kitchen they know they'll have to pay big bucks to replace or renovate, they'll walk. Basically, you're putting your house in a cage match with every other similar house for miles around. Make sure it's ready to kick some ass :)

check_mate

10-30-2005, 03:25 PM

My agent said it should be lower...obviously in his best interest... the prices in the area are all over the place because of semis, smaller lots, lots backing onto parkland, older/newer homes etc. i've seen the same size 4 bedroom detached home sell for +- $100k each way. i think the buyers are scraping the low priced ones, anything at or above average is ignored. with the snow coming, there's not much time left, the bargain hunters will be scavenging for bargains now, looking for desperate sellers, am i right ??

shack

10-30-2005, 03:35 PM

My agent said it should be lower...obviously in his best interest... the prices in the area are all over the place because of semis, smaller lots, lots backing onto parkland, older/newer homes etc.
It's also in your best interest to sell. If time is on your side and you can afford to wait, then do so 'til you get your price. If not, then at some point you're going to have to suck it up and take your best offer. Your post makes it sound like you're getting nervous after just 3 weeks.

Also when comparing prices to other houses in your area, no sense looking at properties that do not have similar stats to yours. You have to compare apples to apples.

Svend

10-30-2005, 03:37 PM

It's tough if you can't compare to something exactly the same that is on the market, ultimately it's up to you. The agent could be right, but I'm not in a position to say.
I hope you're not in a position where you are desperate - try to stay cool and don't give in to pressure if you don't think it's right.

Vancouver Femme Fatale

10-30-2005, 03:50 PM

Actually, two episodes of Sell This House! followed by an episode of Flip This House are coming on in a few minutes Pacific Time, on Channel 31 or A&E.

Always informative stuff, and I'm definitely going to tune in.

papasmerf

10-30-2005, 03:54 PM

A fresh coat of paint (white or off white) adds to the house

makes it smell fresh.

Clean the carpets and even the driveway.

KBear

10-30-2005, 04:24 PM

Your agent can tell you what properties similar to yours have sold in your area in the last few weeks. If buyers are buying other similar properties then you may be over priced. If nothing similar has sold, then you still dont really know much, other then you have not missed out on a sale.

3 weeks is not that long of a time to be on the market.

Some agents are very good, and consider the clients best interests first, some do not.

Price reductions do not mean that much to the average buyer, and the agents dont care at all about price reductions.

Vancouver Femme Fatale

10-30-2005, 05:30 PM

Anybody watching Flip This House!? Holy rat troubles, hey? :eek:

tboy

10-30-2005, 06:49 PM

Once again someone is coming to an escort review board to ask about something totally unrelated....like that guy in another forum who complained that he wasn't getting a doctor's input for his question on hiv...LOL doh.

Let's see, I heard stories that a place sold 15 minutes after it was listed and had a bidding war going on (they got 20K over the original asking price) and you've not had anything for 3 weeks.....what's that tell you?

Let me ask you:
what'd you pay for it?
When did you buy it?
What kind of ROI are you after?

check_mate

10-30-2005, 08:56 PM

Let me ask you:
what'd you pay for it?
When did you buy it?
What kind of ROI are you after?

a) 300
b) 8 years ago
c) its not an investment, i'll be buying another home after i sell, buying in a more expensive area, so i need all the $$$ i can get

tboy

10-30-2005, 09:03 PM

Sorry, I forgot D) what is your asking price?

Whether you are looking at it as an investment or not, you want to make something on the sale. Unless of course you are willing to let it go at the price you paid for it 8 yrs ago....

Look at the real estate costs, the land transfer costs on the new purchase, gst (I think it applies to your new purchase) on your new purchase, I should think you'd want to make enuff on your sale to cover all your costs on your new purchase (at least).

canucklehead

10-30-2005, 09:05 PM

OK my whole thing if you did not have more then 3 showings in 3 weeks there is something wrong with your price.
My one house i flipped i bought renovated and resold in 6 monthes. I had 15 showings in the first two days and took bids at the end of that week. I researched and viewed other homes in the area. Just because someone else got 100 + k more then what i was asking i knew why because i did the research. Just because you want to buy a more expensive home in a nicer area you can not ask what you want for it to cover your new costs.
The fact you have had only 3 viewing screams over priced to similar homes. Would you pay what you are asking for that home?
I know areas in which over the last 8 years prices have only gone up 30% and other areas where prices have gone up 200% .
Also the price of gas is going to start causing city home values to go up and GTA home values to go down. Are taxes high in your area?
Are many homes in the area on the market for a long period of time? Why should someone want to buy your home?

frankcastle

10-30-2005, 09:08 PM

Go with Kbears advice, when I dealt with a real estate agent he printed up a list of all the sales in my area that were similar to mine and how much they were listed for and how much they sold for. As for days on the market.... 3 weeks is nothing its not surprising most places stay on the market 60 to 90 days possibly longer. Don't forget that the fastest selling months are over so business may slow down. Winter is when the lowballers come out to try and get a deal so it all depends on how badly you want to sell your place and how quickly.

As for presenting your place.... fresh paint, waxing/buffing the floor and having the carpets cleaned make a big difference. Move out as much stuff as possible to reduce the clutter to make the place seem bigger. Air the place out as much as possible and make the place smell nice. Some agents even suggest getting some cookie dough and baking cookies.

KBear

10-30-2005, 09:11 PM

Unless of course you are willing to let it go at the price you paid for it 8 yrs ago.....

What he paid for the house, and how much profit he wants to make is irrelevant.

If he has decided to sell the house, he will get the price that someone is willing to pay for it, no more. It does not matter if he wants more, and can show the buyers that he needs more to get the ROI he wants, they don’t want to hear it, and don’t care.

3 showing in 3 weeks sounds a bit slow, but it depends on the area you are in. If your agent says you are over priced, you just might be.

C Dick

10-30-2005, 09:42 PM

My mother put her house on the market, and had three offers within a day, she took the one for $1K over asking. I conclude that she was asking too little. If you can afford it (i.e. you have not already bought the next one), start high and see if you can get the high price for the guy who wants that specific house, if not, lower the price gradually until someone bites, or it is not worth your while. Though it is a pain to have the house presentable for a long time.

Svend

10-30-2005, 09:56 PM

I think having the correct price in the first place while the listing is fresh is important. This is where a great agent who knows the area and the market is important.
None of us know if your price is right, having us will only make your second guessing escalate. Try to stay cool.

lickrolaine

10-31-2005, 03:23 AM

a) 300
b) 8 years ago
c) its not an investment, i'll be buying another home after i sell, buying in a more expensive area, so i need all the $$$ i can get

The difference between where you are and where you want to be has grown faster then the increased value on your present home.That is why it is a more expensive area.Trying to get the same return on your present home,in comparison to what the home in the expensive area went up won't work.Now if you had bit the bullet on the more exp home 8 years ago,,,,,,,,,,hindsite,20/20
But if you could not afford it back then,what has changed?Unless a person doubles up at the least on mortage payments,after 8 years you owe maybe 5 to 10 grand less then when you started.

papasmerf

10-31-2005, 04:01 AM

The difference between where you are and where you want to be has grown faster then the increased value on your present home.That is why it is a more expensive area.Trying to get the same return on your present home,in comparison to what the home in the expensive area went up won't work.Now if you had bit the bullet on the more exp home 8 years ago,,,,,,,,,,hindsite,20/20
But if you could not afford it back then,what has changed?Unless a person doubles up at the least on mortage payments,after 8 years you owe maybe 5 to 10 grand less then when you started.

Realestate investments are a fragile one. Were buy based upon need and want, yet we hope others agree.

When the do we profit. When they do not we accept our losses and move on. BTW 7 to 10 years is typical for turning a profit.

AMWBT

10-31-2005, 06:07 AM

Didn't your agent do the research for you, like show you similar houses in similar areas, what they asked for and what they actually sold for? I'm actually selling my house as well, and we came up with a good price based on all the available information (comparison with over 20 other properties) - it's been listed for just over a week and I've had 5 showings so far. It also depends on supply, there are lots of houses in my neighbourhood for sale, for instance, so it tends to make the pricing that much more competitive.

tboy

10-31-2005, 06:47 AM

What he paid for the house, and how much profit he wants to make is irrelevant.

Kbear: it is totally relevant when he ultimately sells and when he sets his asking price. Yes, he can only get what the market will support (just like an sp setting her prices) but someone somewhere has to set a higher price for the prices in that area to either go up, stay the same, or go down. If he has a "gem" then he can ask more for it. If he overpaid when he bought, he might have to adjust his goal of what his ROI will be. If he wants to break even on the sale and make a lateral move to a more desireable area (closer to work, family, or strip club) then that is relevant also.

Lick: The area he wants to move to isn't necessarily more expensive because it has realized a higher increase in price, it could have been a more expensive area 8 yrs ago also and is just in a more desireable area. In fact, I believe that the higher end areas haven't realized such as high an increase as some middle areas. For eg: If his current home is downtown, and he wants to move to scarborough, then your theory isn't true. The downtown core has (in some areas) realized a tripling of price in the last 7 yrs. where there are some other areas which haven't realized that dramatic increase.....

One of the main problems I see when ppl try to sell their home is they think they have the Bentley of homes in their area and think everything else is in the league of a chevette. Dude: you have to be realistic in your goals and really step back and take a look at what your property is really worth on the market. Then you can assess what you can actually get for your place and that will give you an idea of what you can spend on your next place.

As noted: paint is the cheapest and easiest way to immediately increase the value of your home.

other areas that will affect the price dramatically:
- New upgraded bathrooms and kitchens
- hardwood floors or new carpet
- Curb appeal or landscaping (even if the plants only last 2 months, if it looks good on the outside when the buyer's see it, that will make them more eager to purchase).

By the way: upgraded Kitchens bathrooms and paint are the only areas that you are guaranteed to get your money back when you sell. For some reason these areas have consistantly given you the highest ROI.

lickrolaine

10-31-2005, 08:17 AM

Lick: The area he wants to move to isn't necessarily more expensive because it has realized a higher increase in price, it could have been a more expensive area 8 yrs ago also and is just in a more desireable area. In fact, I believe that the higher end areas haven't realized such as high an increase as some middle areas. For eg: If his current home is downtown, and he wants to move to scarborough, then your theory isn't true. The downtown core has (in some areas) realized a tripling of price in the last 7 yrs. where there are some other areas which haven't realized that dramatic increase.....

I also said that the house he bought 8yrs ago did not keep up with the area they are looking at now.
The difference between where you are and where you want to be has grown faster then the increased value on your present home.That is why it is a more expensive area. Also included if it was affordable back then,,,,
Now if you had bit the bullet on the more exp home 8 years ago,,,,,,,,,,hindsite,20/20 My theory is true,if they own downtown now,paying 300,000 8 yrs ago,then they now have 900,000 by your calculations.Since 900 grand would pretty much by them anything they could want,I would say that scenerio is not true.

Meister

10-31-2005, 09:40 AM

300k 8 years ago would probably average about 420-450k now, depending on upgrades etc.. That kind of price range should not be that difficult to sell. Currently, the 600 to 800k homes are difficult to sell. The theory is that below 600 you can still manage with a mortgage easily. Above 800 most people don't have to rely on a mortgage to buy.

Also, find out what buyers are saying after a showing when they didn't like it. Too dark, old windows, old carpet etc... and try to address these issues.

mmouse

10-31-2005, 11:07 AM

The market definitely seems to be cooling off. A house on my street just sold for about 30k less than others earlier in the year, and was on the market 5 weeks when others were sold in 1-2.

i_am_good

10-31-2005, 12:40 PM

...here we are talking about TREB...on TERB... :p

Hey check_mate, hang in there.

simontemplar

10-31-2005, 02:23 PM

No matter what the current market condition, it all comes down to price. If it's priced "properly" it will sell within two weeks to ten weeks. The trick, of course, is finding the "proper" price. List it at $99,000 and you'd have a line-up of buyers...list it at a million, and you'd get no one. So, somewhere in between is the right price - the price a prudent buyer will pay to a motivated seller who is not under undue pressure to sell.

check_mate

10-31-2005, 03:41 PM

Thanks for the info folks......... a lot of good advice to consider!!

james t kirk

10-31-2005, 05:51 PM

This is also a tough time of the year to sell a house.

If you go to the Canada mortgage and housing website, you can buy for a small fee the data on the houses selling in your area. You will always see that the number of closings falls drastically in November and December and January and doesn't start to pick up till March.

It's the end of the year thing / Christmas bill thing.

Meister

10-31-2005, 10:41 PM

You're totally off base. It entirely depends on the location and the comparable housing in that location. You can't purchase a vacant lot or a tear down for $800,000 in Rosedale yet in Scarborough you could fire 100 scud missiles and not hit a million dollar home. Also, most of the purchasers over a mil these days finance their homes. You just can't generalize like that- every circumstance is different.

Yes, Rosedale is more expensive, Ritz Carlton, 5th Avenue and Beverly Hills is even more expensive, so what's your point? We are talking average house prices here and a standard 3 bedroom det. house averages around 400 to 600k depending on location. These ones should be easy to sell. After that it is tougher to sell because people think twice about taking on a 500k mortgage for 2 reasons:
Can I continue to rake in the dough to afford this?
As the US is cranking up rates is Canada following suit and put a damper on prices?

canucklehead

10-31-2005, 11:41 PM

Just to give u an idea a 2 bedroom rental i owned in The Film District sold for 325 i bought it 7 years ago for 154. I spent maybe 20 grand over the last 7 years.

Meister

10-31-2005, 11:51 PM

You comment that below $600,000 you can still manage with a mortgage easily is just absurd. People will buy and sell homes at prices set by the market. There are dozens of factors at work and to make a blanket statement like that shows that you knowing about the subject and should probably keep your mouth shut.

From the CBC:

"Across the city, the average price increase for a two-storey home was 4.7 per cent to $463,738."

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/business/050706/b070665.html

Whatever!

Just keep talking about those multi-million dollar estates. Maybe it gives you a hard-on or something.

btw, your arrogance just makes you look like an idiot.

Meister

10-31-2005, 11:56 PM

He said he bought his house at 300k.

Show me a house that appreciated from 300 to 800k in 8 years?

goodtime

10-31-2005, 11:59 PM

TREB shows how many days house on market and if price been changed. House on market too long or dropped too much gives buyer indication may be problem with house or difficult sell.

If it's been on market more than 1 month, pull it off market and re-enter when house renov or market better with reasonable price.

As investor, best ROI for cheaper house on street match your interest.

As noted: paint is the cheapest and easiest way to immediately increase the value of your home.

other areas that will affect the price dramatically:
- New upgraded bathrooms and kitchens
- hardwood floors or new carpet
- Curb appeal or landscaping (even if the plants only last 2 months, if it looks good on the outside when the buyer's see it, that will make them more eager to purchase).

By the way: upgraded Kitchens bathrooms and paint are the only areas that you are guaranteed to get your money back when you sell. For some reason these areas have consistantly given you the highest ROI.
Do nice job with fresh paint, no patchy work as indication of leaks or defects.

Kitchen & bathrooms appeal to women and they're the one dictate the sale and price. Even thought Real estate is biggest investment for most of us, it's still comes down to emotional sell. Our Real estate agent helped my buddy & I decorate house and brought in artwork to attract buyer. Don't over do it with removable decorations as don't care for house but artwork.

Open house are waste of time. Our agent was smart in timing multiple showing close together for buyer to feel motivated as others are looking at house. If it's too quiet may think problem with house. Just like hobby, people follow bee-line.

Good luck. Let everyone know you are selling as potential buyer may be neigbor's relatives or friend of friend...

rubme

11-01-2005, 08:14 AM

Some great points guys. The market is always softer at this time of the year.

Most families do not wish to move kids during school year unless it's a steal of a deal.

I just listed my house. I sent out letters to all the agents in the area to see what they would do to sell my house. Sent out 6 letters received 4 responses.

2 wanted to sell my house at the asking price from 3 years ago. Wanted 6%. 1 wanted to list it higher than what I thought it was worth and was at 5%
The other 10K less that what I thought and wanted 4% - Remax

Was told by the lower 2 that they would sell my house in less than 30 days. No shit, I could do that myself.

The other 2 stated that timing was not the best, because the house is outside the city, Gas costs will come into affect for the people that are maxed out in their budget. The slight rise in rates has slowed things down a little as well.
The price of Natural Gas coming into the winter season.My house is almost 4000sq ft.
All of this made sense to me.

It might take 3 to 6 months to sell.

I listed the house to make a few bucks and to down size.I am in no rush to sell.

Just one other thing it seemed that the two low agents were pissed at what I wanted to sell the house for based upon what I paid.
I low balled the last seller at got the house at 45k below asking price. Now after 3 years I'm up 150K. I have spent less than 5k on the house in 3 years.

As my agent says if some one wants to make an offer they can offer what ever they want if they think you are 2 high.

mmouse

11-01-2005, 08:54 AM

Doesn't it look bad that a house has been on the market a long time?
I remember when I was looking for a house, my agent would always tell me this one just been listed (i.e. a good thing) or this has been sitting there for 1 or 2 months (i.e. something wrong it, and/or the asking price is unrealistic).

KBear

11-01-2005, 09:00 AM

Doesn't it look bad that a house has been on the market a long time?.

Yes, homes on the market for over about 45 days would be picked second, with the newer properties being picked first to be shown.

red

11-01-2005, 09:01 AM

how is the fire insurance? up to date on your premiums?

goodtime

11-02-2005, 12:27 AM

Agents are motivated by commission. We let agent get the full rate if they sell the house with-in reasonable time and our expected price. As matter of fact the agent offer to cancel the contract early if house not sold in 40 days.

I find Remax agents will accept any house and to guarantee 30 days sold, they pressure sellor, 1st sell at below going rate, then major drop in price if not going well. Good if you want to get rid of in hurry but take a beating in price.

frankcastle

11-02-2005, 07:08 PM

You gotta look after your own interests. When I was selling my place I overheard the agent talking to the buyer's agent about what was the max the buyer would go for. That worked for me because I got the highest price quickly but from the buyers perspective they got hosed into spend their max.

goodtime

11-03-2005, 12:14 AM

You gotta look after your own interests. When I was selling my place I overheard the agent talking to the buyer's agent about what was the max the buyer would go for...
Agent can get their hand slapped by TREB. One of the no no, acting in their own best interest, not yours.

KBear

11-03-2005, 12:36 AM

Agent can get their hand slapped by TREB. One of the no no, acting in their own best interest, not yours.

Believe it would be RECO that would do the hand slapping, if any.

If selling, you would want your agent to chat up the buyer's agent to try to get them to come up in price, or find out how high they are willing to go. Never hurts to ask :)

The buyer's agent would get into trouble if they disclosed that kind or information. But if you are selling, and the buyer's agent is new, or does not care, you would certainly want your agent to exploit it.