Careers right out of uni..?

[careerless]

Good day everybody!
I have been a long time lurker of terb. I recently graduated from UofT for B.Comm and have completed my diploma at humber for marketing. I have been looking for a job for about 3 months now and to no avail. Now taking into consideration, i have 4 years of managerial experience at a retail store. I cant find a job that doesnt involve telemarketing, door to door or a job that pays 20k a year.
I have checked every website out there (monster, workopolis, jobs..) but to no avail..
I am looking for a career, but dont really know where to start.
Is this a bad time for jobs?
For example, Does it require me to start as a csr and then work my way up, say at RBC or TD?
any suggestions? on where i should start?
p.s. taking into acct that i am well groomed, dressed, speak perfect english and have a desire to learn/achieve.
Thanks
Careerless

[Tick]

Ever seen Risky Business?

[papasmerf]

We all or most have started at the bottom. We pay our dues and rise thru the ranks. But untill you have established yourself at one of the best in the business you will pay those same dues; everytime you change jobs.

Today having a degree is not much better then a High School diploma was in 1970. You see most every applicant has a degree. You need to beable to stand out by the resume and cover letter you send to even get seen as a serious applicant.

[fullmetal]

the unemployemt rate has been soaring at 7% which is pretty high , jobs are very difficult to get no matter what area you are applying , the competion is fierce .

[papasmerf]

the unemployemt rate has been soaring at 7% which is pretty high , jobs are very difficult to get no matter what area you are applying , the competion is fierce .



7%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Canada is not the land of milk and honey?????????

Damn:eek:

[moneyshotz]

IMO it's all about who ya know and who knows you. I was in the same boat as you 4years ago when I finished school. I had a part time job working at a hospital until I landed a job by luck in my field. I was going to the subway one afternoon after work when I bumped into a guy I use to play basketball with 10 years ago. We chatted and I told him that I just finished school and was lookin for a job in my field. He told me he might be lookin for someone at his firm so he asked me to forward him my resume.. He called me a few weeks later and asked if i can come in for a interview. Basically the interview was him and I talking about the old days playing ball and if I had seen so and so from the courts lately. So in other words the interview lasted 15min and I was hired without 1 work related question being asked.

The best 2 qualities I would say to posess is to be friendly and know as much people as you can. Jobs, meeting women, hook-ups are much easier when you have alot of friends..

[LeatherDoll]

Where and how do you want to apply yourself? Have you used the resources at HRDC? Have you looked anywhere not on the internet?

What is on your resume? Have you had it reveiwed? Is there job experience? There are a million people with education profiles similar or better to yours. What distinguishes you from them?

Have you outlined your transferrable skill sets (leadership, organization, communication, etc)?

What is your job experience like? Have you clearly stated what you achieved in each?

What are you doing in the meantime? Do you have any volunteer experience? Are you currently volunteering any of your time?

There is no room for missing anything - the competition for limited positions is too fierce.

CharityVillage.com (http://www.charityvillage.com) has one of the best job boards around, if you want to work in the social service end of the markets - no multi-billion dollar corporations, but measurable effect on the world.

[Sheik]

*lol*

One thing that kills me today is that everyone who graduates from university or college expect to start making big bucks right away.

Wont happen and when it does its like a lottery, very few win.

Start on the ground floor and work your way up. Volunteer when you can like Doll suggested. It gets your name out there among people who do take an interest in you and your skills.

Good luck.

[tboy]

I'm with you on this one sheik, just because you have an education that makes you qualified? FYI: the real world does NOT resemble what you learn in school. School teaches you the rules but not how to play the game....

Anyhow, with an all time high of students in colleges and universities just having a post secondary education does not qualify you for a position in any field. Just remember passing doesn't make it anymore....if you're not the superstar then you won't be sought out by the big companies.

Looking for a job? There's thousands of jobs out there, but you seem like many that I've run into after graduation or out looking for somethng: if you don't find THE job/position you want, you say "there isn't any jobs out there". Sorry, but that doesn't cut it. As stated it sounds like you want to start at a management position which ain't gonna happen cowboy. Get a job, any job, something to pay the bills, and remember: there's engineers with 20 yrs experience and years of schooling driving cabs and flipping burgers....

[canucklehead]

i had a kid that was working part time for me as a technician at one of my clients (basically 30 hours a week in their office) finished his BComm and now had finished his MBA. He still can't find a job that will pay him more then 40 a year and he honestly expects to make over 80 a year as project manager for a fortune 50..... in all seriousness get some experience and put in your time.
He has already won the world's biggest lottery.... being born and or living in North America. We take way to much for granted. We are only 10 percent (estimate) of the worlds population but have a majority of the wealth.

[james t kirk]

the unemployemt rate has been soaring at 7% which is pretty high , jobs are very difficult to get no matter what area you are applying , the competion is fierce .

When I graduated, I think the unemployment level was around 10%.

7% is pretty good.

[fullmetal]

canada has one of the highest unemployment rate in an industrialised country . forget about an entry level or survival job even thats hard to find . MY son has sent over 150 resumes since xmas and has yet to even get an interview and im talking joe jobs .

[james t kirk]

remember: there's engineers with 20 yrs experience and years of schooling driving cabs and flipping burgers....

Don't know about that.

Maybe with Experience only in Pakistan or someother foreign place, but not with Canadian experience of 20 years, unless they want to do that.

[Ryan]

Good day everybody!
I have been a long time lurker of terb. I recently graduated from UofT for B.Comm and have completed my diploma at humber for marketing. I have been looking for a job for about 3 months now and to no avail. Now taking into consideration, i have 4 years of managerial experience at a retail store. I cant find a job that doesnt involve telemarketing, door to door or a job that pays 20k a year.

Don't knock sales (real sales), even if it's low level outside sales.

I worked my way through my last few years of college in a commission sales job that you would consider menial and laughable.

Now, decades later, I have advanced to the executive level of a billion dollar corporation. I can tell you honestly that nothing (university degrees, connections, hard work, dedication, blah-blah-blah) has contributed more to my success than my sales experience.

Nothing else can teach you to think on your feet or the feeling of having to perform to get paid (which is what it takes to run with the big dogs). Successful people have an undeniable "killer instinct", you only get that the hard way. Risk.

I just hired a 24 year old programmer 18 months out of school. I'm paying him $65K USD. The deciding factor? A summer sales job in which he proved he could "sing for his supper".


Ryan

[james t kirk]

canada has one of the highest unemployment rate in an industrialised country . forget about an entry level or survival job even thats hard to find . MY son has sent over 150 resumes since xmas and has yet to even get an interview and im talking joe jobs .

Really....

Germany is 12.6%.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4307303.stm

France is something like 10.4%

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/9623cf96-8728-11d9-9e3c-00000e2511c8.html

Europe

http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/050304112705.ev8la4o7/view

So, Canada is pretty good

[Picard]

hey careless:

Are you a caucasian? if not, you will have much more difficult time getting a job nowadays. The bank pays very poorly. I know what you are going through right now. I had lots of experience. If you want to get into banking business, you should take the Canadian Securities Course, plus a few other course offer by the Canadian Securities Institute. It is located at TD tower. check phone book. This education buttress your BA degree. It allows the bank to hire you. It is compulsary requirement in banking or investment field. This is only first step. Now you must think carefully what you want to do in life. Are you good at selling stuff? if you can sell, you can take a crack in investment field. It involves selling.

I have to tell you the bad news that alot of those sell guys who works for Nesbit Burns are not that smart as you. Most don't have university education at all. They are good at sell. Theirs IQ level is quite low. I mean their behavior is primitive. You always must present yourself as aggressive person. More importantly, Don't dress or act like you are an immigrant. Change your hairstyle, change your habits completely. You are now in Canada. This is the final leg of your journey. You are entrenched to compete with many affluent, well connected white men out there. You must think like them. Observe their behaviors. learn the best of their styles such as mannerism, speech.

You should apply to the governemt. You need to have Cdn citizenship not landed immigrant status. landed immigrant status doesn't have the legal weight of citizenship. Why don't you apply to the Canadian Foreign service, They are recruiting now. You have to have excellent writing skills.

[fullmetal]

Really....

Germany is 12.6%.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4307303.stm

France is something like 10.4%

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/9623cf96-8728-11d9-9e3c-00000e2511c8.html

Europe

http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/050304112705.ev8la4o7/view

So, Canada is pretty good
US at 4%

[Sheik]

As of Feb 2005 US Unemployment for those 16 and older was 5.4% not 4% as you claim.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t07.htm

[to-guy69]

-Pursue MBA or professional designation(s) in the field you are interested

-Join industry associations and network with the right people at their events

-Have both your resume and cover letter professionally done with an professional profile

-Look for some headhunter(s) to help out with the search

[afx]

*lol*

One thing that kills me today is that everyone who graduates from university or college expect to start making big bucks right away.

Good luck.


From my personal experience and my educational background... I graduated with a degree in engineering

I found a job paying 55K off the bat and an increase up into the 70's about 1.5 years afterwards. Same goes for the majority of my graduating class of 2002.

[fullmetal]

As of Feb 2005 US Unemployment for those 16 and older was 5.4% not 4% as you claim.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t07.htm
sorry for the miscalculation of 1.4% , my bad :eek:

[tboy]

Hey afx, I don't think he meant NO one could get the good high paying jobs, his statement was that everyone thinks they DESERVE one of them BECAUSE they have an education....

As for umemployment rates: BS total BS. I mean there are thousands of ppl on umemployment insurance who have never seriously looked for a job and have no intention of ever doing so. I know of 3 ppl right now who are on unemployment and won't "settle" for a position other than what they think they deserve (one is an ex-sp who would never "work" for $10.00 an hour).

I also don't know what the immigration rules and regs are in regards to unemployment benefits. I do remember back in the day a portugese family I know brought over a cousin who was receiving benefits after the 3 week waiting period and he never paid INTO UI.

My advice still stands: get a job EOS......

[a 1 player]

The business world is one big game where in school they never teach you the rules. A person may have a MBA, BA, or college diploma and that is usually enough to get in the door of most companies. With the exception of specialty fields of course. In my experience there are only two ways to move up the ladder quickly. Outperform everybody and get in with the right people. You basically need to do both.

When I started in manufacturing years ago I was hired on as a clerk, basically a secretary. I quickly was told that in order for me to move up I would need a P-eng degree. Raising a young family this was not an option for me. I looked at the people who were moving up in rank, those who had been in the same position for years, the people who had influence, the people who were getting fired etc. While I was doing this I absorbed everything that I could learn.

The first thing I learned was that my three years of college was basically useless. Everything changed from the way I had learned it, and they never taught me the people skills that are 90% of what is needed to succeed.

I positioned myself with the people who were moving up, became their friends, played golf with them etc. and worked like a SOB. When a position became available I made my intentions known to my manager. Though I did not have the degree required, my work ethic showed and I had a few respected people pulling for me. I have done this a few times quite successfully.

In short: work hard, get in with the right people, know the people who are stagnant (they can help you on your way too), treat everybody with respect, and get to know the President's secreatry very, very well. (She may be one of the most important people as she is the one who will either get you in with the boss or not).

Do not be afraid to take an entry level job, this is one of the best ways to discover how a company works, especially if you do not have the skill set required for a management position.

Once you have gone as far as you can go in a company, put out a resume and change jobs. There are tons of companies out there who are looking for fresh blood and new ideas.

Anyway, this is just my opinion. It has worked very well for me. I guess what I am trying to say is that you start with a job and work into a carreer, carreers are usually earned IMHO.

Good luck in your search.

[yychobbyist]

7%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Canada is not the land of milk and honey?????????

Damn:eek:



To quote one of your heroes "there you go again."

[Diode]

Free advice: All work is a net positive to personal development.
and remember what ever you do....BUST YOUR ASS!

[Malibook]

As of Feb 2005 US Unemployment for those 16 and older was 5.4% not 4% as you claim.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t07.htm
5.4% is 35% higher than 4% but the real rate is significantly higher than that if you count the people who are not considered to be actively pursuing a job.

One must also consider the quality of the jobs that are available.
For quite some time, there were over 400,000 new unemployment claims in the US every week, and even now a couple of years later the number is still over 300,000 new initial claims every week.
Many of these were high quality jobs that have not been replaced and are never coming back. :(

[red]

Good day everybody!
I have been a long time lurker of terb. I recently graduated from UofT for B.Comm and have completed my diploma at humber for marketing. I have been looking for a job for about 3 months now and to no avail. Now taking into consideration, i have 4 years of managerial experience at a retail store. I cant find a job that doesnt involve telemarketing, door to door or a job that pays 20k a year.
I have checked every website out there (monster, workopolis, jobs..) but to no avail..
I am looking for a career, but dont really know where to start.
Is this a bad time for jobs?
For example, Does it require me to start as a csr and then work my way up, say at RBC or TD?
any suggestions? on where i should start?
p.s. taking into acct that i am well groomed, dressed, speak perfect english and have a desire to learn/achieve.
Thanks
Careerless


BComm- what area? accounting, finance, economics or marketing?

[shakenbake]

*lol*

One thing that kills me today is that everyone who graduates from university or college expect to start making big bucks right away.

Wont happen and when it does its like a lottery, very few win.

Start on the ground floor and work your way up. Volunteer when you can like Doll suggested. It gets your name out there among people who do take an interest in you and your skills.

Good luck.

Sheik;

Truer words were never spoken!

I started out of university with a Ph.D. in chemical engineering, during a time when we were in a bit of a major recession. My first job was essentially as a wet bench chemist, and I had to prove myself, which I did.

My words of advice are,
1] keep an open mind and explore all options,
2] networking helps a great deal,
3] always be optimistic,
4] never let your education get in the way of doing something important and worthwhile!

shakenbake

[Mr. Downtown]

Like someone else said, its all about who you know and vise versa. Looking at want-ads and employment websites, accounts for a small portion of the jobs filled out there. It will basically get you nowhere. Do as I did when I graduated and moved to this city....target companies whom you wish to work for, cold call up the heads of those departments (stay away from HR), explain yourself and ask for a meeting. You will be surprised by the number of influential people who will be willing to talk to you because of your initiative. They may not have a job for you but they always like to talk about themselves and their company and may connections for you to contact in the industry. Even if nothing comes out of any particular meeting you at least develop add'l on-the-spot interviewing skills. Start now.

[johndoe125]

My self being farely young and went through the same situation a few years ago.

If you want to work in finance with one of the major banks and do not have any contacts, a temp agency is your best bet.

This will get your foot in the door, if you work hard, become a good listener and be respectfull and sociable it will open up alot of doors for you.

The key is knowing how to be sociable, I found I got ahead by socialicing with people outside having a cigarette, I also found out the most information about what was hapenning by befriending the controller, and for some reason that person always seems to smoke. The best time to get to know someone is after hours 7:00 to 8:00 PM. You can build a buddy routine with them to have a cigarette together.

Thanks to those few tips I was able to start at $13/hour 4 years ago and now I work as a consultant and each year I was able to double my income.

Also once you have your "first" job for about a year, start looking elsewhere, I found the fastest way to move up is to move around, make sure every time you switch jobs its for better position and more money.

Hope that helps

[trek5]

My self being farely young and went through the same situation a few years ago.

If you want to work in finance with one of the major banks and do not have any contacts, a temp agency is your best bet.

This will get your foot in the door, if you work hard, become a good listener and be respectfull and sociable it will open up alot of doors for you.

The key is knowing how to be sociable, I found I got ahead by socialicing with people outside having a cigarette, I also found out the most information about what was hapenning by befriending the controller, and for some reason that person always seems to smoke. The best time to get to know someone is after hours 7:00 to 8:00 PM. You can build a buddy routine with them to have a cigarette together.

.

Hope that helps
are u kidding thats the worst image u can create for yourself as being a smoker , they are the biggest time wasters in any company . many employers are discouraged by hiring smokers indirectly , smokers are know to take more unauthorised breaks and sick days because of their nasty smoking addiction .

[Keebler Elf]

*lol*

One thing that kills me today is that everyone who graduates from university or college expect to start making big bucks right away.


I think that's way off base. The original poster wasn't looking for big bucks, he was just looking for a job that didn't involve telemarketing or that paid minimum wage. IMO, both of these are reasonable expectations considering his credentials.

Now he is in marketing, which I can see as being a tough labour market to get into unless you have connections. But as a marketer, I would expect good marketing skills, especially when it comes to your own abilities. I would recommend seeing a job counsellor (if you're a recent graduate, I'm pretty sure U of T still provides assistance) to make he doesn't have glaring problems with his resume. I would also recommend looking for a job in fields that may not seem like traditional marketing ones. Getting a PR or communications job can give the experience needed to move into marketing later on. In short, broaden your horizons.

While I agree that a lot of youth have high expectations, I don't think that is entirely a bad thing considering the time and financial investments they have made in themselves. For an employer to treat a university grad like just another high school grad or like some schmo to be taken advantage of just b/c he is new to the job is, IMHO, insulting and doesn't recognize that person's achievements. Not someone I'd want to work for to begin with. I find that the attitude that "all youth are lazy and want to start off at the top" is one of ignorance that justs adds to the problem of youth unemployment. There are plenty of young workers willing to work their way up; but that's kinda hard to do when employers won't give them the chance b/c "they just want to start at the top and make the big bucks."

[careerless]

HI,
First, i would like to thank every member for their input.I understand its difficult without some history.
I have been out of school for about a year now and while i was in school i worked retail as a store/sales manager, i have always had a few side ventures to keep the funds somewhat consistent. For the last year and a little i have been in this industry, running a small operation with a few girls.It is fairly decent operation with a few speedbumps along the way like any thing else. I have chosen to find something real, something that has meaning (i can already hear the boo's), and since i am still relatively young, i think that getting a taste of what the corporate ladder offers may not be a bad thing. I have also made the choice because i feel that if i have kids one day, it wouldn't be right for me to be doing this (now i can really hear the boo's). The last job on my resume is my sales job, and not the agency (for obvious reasons). I love sales and i love being an entrepreneur, but im confused on what to do? what field should i get into? i dont know which direction to go.
As far as race goes i am caucasian, i was raised here.
as far as courses go, i am about 6 months away from acuiring my real estate completion (phase 3), i was going to do my CSC, but i thought if i get a job at an institutuion they would cover the cost, but i might just do it myself depending on the way things pan out...
any other ideas?

[canucklehead]

depends on your engineering ...... I dropped out of University 3 different times and have just worked hard and sold myself and my skills. Great customer service hard work and honesty has gotten me where i am. I don't even use the degree i eventually got though the research skills are about the only thing i can say i benefited from in school and i can work hard after drinking all night.

[jwmorrice]

I thought this article from the LA Times was interesting.

jwmorrice

March 11, 2005

THE NATION
Long-Term Jobless Find a Degree Just Isn't Working
March 11, 2005
By Nicholas Riccardi, Times Staff Writer


Dan Gillespie never thought he'd have to look so hard for work.

When the Seattle-area resident left the Air Force in 1980, he earned a computer science degree and enjoyed 20 years of steady work. He saved enough money to buy his wife's childhood home last year.

Three months later, he was laid off.

Gillespie, 53, hasn't found a job since. Even the corner store won't hire him. He and his wife sold the house last month.

"The computer jobs are gone," he said. "So what's next? We can't all move into gene splicing."

Long-term unemployment, defined as joblessness for six months or more, is at record rates. But there's an additional twist: An unusually large share of those chronically out of work are, like Gillespie, college graduates.

The increasing inability of educated workers to quickly return to the workforce reflects dramatic shifts in the economy, experts say. Even as overall hiring is picking up and economic growth remains strong, industries are transforming at a rapid pace as they adjust to intense competition, technological change and other pressures.

That means skilled jobs can quickly become obsolete, while others are outsourced. Educated workers are increasingly subject to the job insecurities and disruptions usually plaguing blue-collar laborers, but various factors make it even harder for some educated workers to get back into the workforce quickly. Though a college education is still one of a worker's best assets, it's no guarantee that a worker's skills will match demands of a shifting job market.

The advantages of a college degree "are being erased," said Marcus Courtenay, president of a branch of the Communications Workers of America that represents technology employees in the Seattle area. "The same thing that happened to non- college-educated employees during the last recession is now happening to college-educated employees."

Even with better-than-expected job growth, 373,000 people with college degrees quit job hunting and dropped out of the labor force last month, the Labor Department reported Friday.

The number of long-term unemployed who are college graduates has nearly tripled since the bursting of the tech bubble in 2000, statistics show. Nearly 1 in 5 of the long-term jobless are college graduates. If a degree holder loses a job, that worker is now more likely than a high school dropout to be chronically unemployed.

That change is occurring as it is getting harder for all jobless to get back into the workforce.

Since the 2001 recession, about one-fifth of the unemployed have been out of work for more than six months — and that proportion has steadily crept up even as the unemployment rate has fallen. The percentage of jobless who are chronically unemployed is even higher in California — 23.3% last month, versus 20.5% nationwide.

Even with the national unemployment rate at a relatively low 5.4%, the share of those out of work for more than six months is higher now than during the early 1980s, when the jobless rate was in the double digits, analysts say. The average length of unemployment is also higher now than at any time other than the early 1980s.

[jwmorrice]

Analysts cite several reasons for the growing vulnerability of educated workers to long-term joblessness.

For one, the number of college graduates has steadily risen over the decades. So it's natural that more will also lose work.

Tech workers, in particular, are victims of their successes during the 1990s, when many high-tech companies went on hiring binges and wages soared.

"They basically stockpiled workers," said Mark Zandi, an economist with Economy.com. Now those companies have gotten rid of their overstock.

Higher pay commanded by college graduates also is a factor. Wage differentials between those with and without college degrees are at record highs. Those relatively well-paid professionals may take longer to find work because they are more reluctant to accept lower-paying work — although many ultimately do.

Educated professionals also have assets, such as stocks and homes, that can help tide them over. But digging into those assets can be painful, as Khaled Amer learned.

Amer's consulting business hasn't had a client since June. The electrical engineer hasn't found work in months, and as chairman of an Orange County chapter of the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers, he says he knows of hundreds of others in similar straits. His wife recently lost her accounting job when the small manufacturing firm she worked for folded.

The couple are surviving by living off a home equity loan.

"That has been a saving grace," said Amer, 46.

But the Amers had been hoping their house in Irvine would finance their retirement.

The problems of long-term unemployment are even more pronounced for older workers, for whom retirement issues loom large. The number of long-term unemployed who were 45 or older doubled from 2000 to 2003. That comes as studies show that the elderly are having to work longer and put off retirement.

John Challenger, chief executive of Chicago-based outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas, said older workers often face age discrimination but may also face a tougher time adjusting to the increasingly shifting skills needed in the workplace.

"There are more and more specialists," Challenger said. "And if there are more and more specialists in an information economy, you get people whose skills aren't as portable as they used to be."

Paul Kostek, an official with the IEEE, said employers had become pickier about what skills they wanted.

"When there's a lot of people out in the marketplace, companies can afford to say we want someone truly with this experience, not someone who just says, 'Well, I've taken a couple of classes in this area,' " he said.

Getting retrained is also increasingly difficult. Job-training funds have been steadily cut over the decades. Fields that are booming, such as nursing, can require years of study that some jobless cannot afford.

Virginia Johnson of San Jose lost her job as a supply manager for a Silicon Valley firm in January 2003. Except for a nine-month temporary stint, she's been out of work since then. Among the many things she's had to put off is returning to school to finish her business degree.

"Having this time off work would have been great if I'd had the money to go to school," said Johnson, whose unemployment insurance runs out next month.

jwm

[jwmorrice]

It's getting tougher to keep pace with the changing job market, analysts say. Two economists at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York studied job losses during the last three recessions and concluded that the most recent one, in 2001, involved "structural" changes in industries rather than the usual ups and downs of the business cycle.

That means that certain jobs may never be replaced. For example, jobs designing computer chips may vanish because of fundamental changes in chip design or production or because the industry has shipped the jobs overseas, experts say. Or businesses' efforts to boost productivity may mean that computer programs shrink the number of loan officers needed to process applications at a bank.

Erica Groshen, a co-author of the New York Fed study, noted that though the United States manufactures less, white-collar workers increasingly produce goods and services on Information Age assembly lines.

"Instead of a room of auto workers," Groshen said, "you've got a room of insurance brokers."

Those white-collar assembly-line workers are the most vulnerable to changes in the globalized economy, experts say. "These are the types of people who are going to have their jobs under the threat of outsourcing," said Sylvia Allegretto, an economist with the liberal Economic Policy Institute in Washington.

Keith Michaelson feels buffeted by those changes. He used to be a schoolteacher in rural Michigan. When the local school district ran out of money, he studied computers and worked at a Wisconsin-based technology company for 10 years until it was bought out and closed.

Michaelson moved to Los Angeles to work as a computer troubleshooter. He survived one layoff in 2001 and got a job at a local nonprofit. But he lost that post last September and has been looking for work ever since.

Michaelson said he barely recognizes the job market nowadays. "The market changes a lot faster now than it used to," he said.

In the meantime, Michaelson is living in a West Los Angeles apartment and surviving off his savings. "Sometimes I wonder, was it worth it for me to go to college or not?" he said. "I'm 45 and not working, I don't have much money put aside for retirement…. This is my retirement [I'm spending], and I'll be working until I keel over."

[[ALIMEISTER]]

I have about a year and a half left before I graduate from university. Just recently I found a job at a great company which is currently paying me 38g's, which isn't bad considering, technically i'm only a high school graduate. I had a killer resume and gave a killer interview. I am working towards my business degree. Am I satisfied with this for the rest of my life? No. Do I have high expectations? Yes I do. Not only because i'll have a degree, but i'm gaining the experience that should get me to where I want to be. This position was full time, and I jumped on it, and decided to go to school part time. I made that decision knowing i'll have an edge over others because of my experience. This company is internationally respected and lots of internal hiring.

I'm also working towards my CHRP (Canadian Human Resources Program) and CSC which will be paid for by my company. Courses like these are recognized by many institutions and give you an edge over others.

Basically, what i'm trying to say is that you've got to start somewhere. If I were a university graduate, I still would've jumped at this opportunity and do some certificate courses part time which are recognized by the company I am working for. This in turn, would help you move up the ladder. Try getting into a big corporation be it an entry level position at IBM, Microsoft, CIBC etc where they're are opportunties of advancement and growth. Gain an years worth of experience and apply within the company for a better position. You definately will be qualified because of your degree.

You should never be satisfied with what you have, but be happy with what you got.

[booboobear]

..... in all seriousness get some experience and put in your time.
He has already won the world's biggest lottery.... being born and or living in North America. We take way to much for granted. We are only 10 percent (estimate) of the worlds population but have a majority of the wealth.


I agree we do take too much for granted but I think it's more the rich people and those born to wealth that take it for granted.
When you say we have a majority of the wealth what I think is that a small percentage of the population have a disproportinate amount of the wealth.


Considering the cost of university I don't think it is too much to expect a job earning at least $ 25 k to start . Maybe he should take some courses and apply for a job at an insurance company.

[someone]

5.4% is 35% higher than 4% but the real rate is significantly higher than that if you count the people who are not considered to be actively pursuing a job.

One must also consider the quality of the jobs that are available.
For quite some time, there were over 400,000 new unemployment claims in the US every week, and even now a couple of years later the number is still over 300,000 new initial claims every week.
Many of these were high quality jobs that have not been replaced and are never coming back. :(
A lot of the difference between Canadian and American unemployment rates can be explained by the more generous Canadian EI and welfare rules. The unemployment rates in the two countries really started to diverge in the 1970s when Canada made EI (than UI) much more generous.

[trek5]

A lot of the difference between Canadian and American unemployment rates can be explained by the more generous Canadian EI and welfare rules. The unemployment rates in the two countries really started to diverge in the 1970s when Canada made EI (than UI) much more generous.
while thats true that canadia is very generous with EI but that runs out , the longest u can get EI is 43 weeks . welfare on the other hand is a lifetime and if ur a single mom or recent refugee/immigrent u can survive nicely on welfare and not work and have free drug/dental plan .

the US economy is booming because Americans tend to spend more , therefore creating more jobs and they have stricter immigration policy which deters immigrents ffrom abusing the welfare system and taking jobs away from Americans .

[shakenbake]

while thats true that canadia is very generous with EI but that runs out , the longest u can get EI is 43 weeks . welfare on the other hand is a lifetime and if ur a single mom or recent refugee/immigrent u can survive nicely on welfare and not work and have free drug/dental plan .

the US economy is booming because Americans tend to spend more , therefore creating more jobs and they have stricter immigration policy which deters immigrents ffrom abusing the welfare system and taking jobs away from Americans .

All that and the US means business when they invest and spend money on r & d and on developing industry. We have had for far too long a 'branch plant' economic mania and an inferiority complex! :mad:

[SupahotGavin]

i got real lucky in my career. i started literally at the bottom in a great company. one that recoginized people that worked extra hard, one that was growing rapidly but was stable, one that treated their employees with real respect.
as a result, even though when i graduated many of my friends got much better jobs out of school, i have since long surpassed most of them because I have been promoted several times. with each promotion has come a new challenge, sometimes new and interesting to learn, with real personal development.

my advice is research the company's and industries of interest to you. check them out in terms of working conditions, opportunities internally, their forecast and outlook as a business and get in on the ground floor.

then work your ass off... because your degree and a buck-fifty will get you a cup of coffee at tim hortons pal.

[johndoe125]

are u kidding thats the worst image u can create for yourself as being a smoker , they are the biggest time wasters in any company . many employers are discouraged by hiring smokers indirectly , smokers are know to take more unauthorised breaks and sick days because of their nasty smoking addiction .


That's rediculous, because someone smokes does not affect the quality/quantity of their work time. I always tended to see the people that work the most amount of hours tend be the ones that smoke, besides people that don't smoke also take as many breaks. Aside from that, it's not an image you portray, I'm not saying start or stop smoking for your employer, I just simply providing an easy way to "socialise" in a work envirenment. If you smoke or not has nothing to do with your input to a company.

[GIMME]

Good day everybody!
I have been a long time lurker of terb. I recently graduated from UofT for B.Comm and have completed my diploma at humber for marketing. I have been looking for a job for about 3 months now and to no avail. Now taking into consideration, i have 4 years of managerial experience at a retail store. I cant find a job that doesnt involve telemarketing, door to door or a job that pays 20k a year.
I have checked every website out there (monster, workopolis, jobs..) but to no avail..
I am looking for a career, but dont really know where to start.
Is this a bad time for jobs?
For example, Does it require me to start as a csr and then work my way up, say at RBC or TD?
any suggestions? on where i should start?
p.s. taking into acct that i am well groomed, dressed, speak perfect english and have a desire to learn/achieve.
Thanks
Careerless


Word of advice...just because you have a degree from UofT, don't think you are guaranteed a job. I have hired people with degrees, and I have hired people with experience. I've learnt from my mistakes, I only hire people with experience now. If I hire someone right after they graduate from University, I won't pay them much.

My reason is that as you know, University teaches a lot of theory, but in the modern world, theory needs to be put into practice for you to achieve success (unless you are into science and research). Just because you have crammed all those text books into your head, does not mean you know how to put it into practice.

My personal opinion is that no matter if you have a degree or not, you have to get yourself in the door, and then work up. There is no easy way to the top (unless you are really well connected). Some of the best ways to get in is through Call Center environments, such as Telephone Banking and etc. But, don't hang around too long, if you do, its more dangerous because you could get relaxed with the "no brain" work and get stuck in there.

Wish you all the luck.....Apply for all the jobs that attracts you, you never know, one might call one day!

[trek5]

That's rediculous, because someone smokes does not affect the quality/quantity of their work time. I always tended to see the people that work the most amount of hours tend be the ones that smoke, besides people that don't smoke also take as many breaks. Aside from that, it's not an image you portray, I'm not saying start or stop smoking for your employer, I just simply providing an easy way to "socialise" in a work envirenment. If you smoke or not has nothing to do with your input to a company.
People who smoke, work less and take off more sick days than their non-smoking colleagues, research suggests.

In a study of over 300 office staff, smokers were found to be less productive and slower at completing tasks, compared with non-smokers.

They also took, on average, two more sick days per year than non-smokers.



The researchers found that smokers tended to be less productive because they suffered more ill health and because they tended to take regular smoking breaks. Productivity levels improved within a year of people quitting smoking, they noted.

[Will E. Wanker]

Everywhere I've worked the smokers were the slackers.
Also, there's a correlation between smoking and intelligence because you can't be very smart if you there's all this scientific and medical data on the negative effects of smoking and you're still smoking.

[trek5]

The carbon monoxide in cigarettes makes smokers feel dull the way you would in a stuffy room with not enough air. These chemicals rob the brain of learning and normal intelligence . Everywhere I've worked the smokers were the slackers too .

[moneyshotz]

Everywhere I've worked the smokers were the slackers. Also, there's a correlation between smoking and intelligence

I cant agree with this because most of the top brass at my firm smoke. Our CEO, CFO and PM's smokes about a pack a day and they are really intelligent. Plus my manager is a weed head and he's quick as a whip. I think smoking might affect some people's intelligence but not everyone's.

By the way I'm not a smoker (never have been) and I only smoke weed about 3 times a year. I have to call it as I see it.

[Picard]

If the Canadian economy is in bad shape now, Why does the government continue to import in many immigrants from South Asia (Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Iraq, Iran, Sri lanka, Bangladesh etc.. ). All of those immigrants were mislead to believe that they would get well paid jobs immediately. The reality is much worse than they had ever anticipated. There are too many immigrants work in dismally low wage jobs. These immigrants are very frustrated and angry. Alot are unemployed in their field, therefore, the result of high unemployed young immigrants might lead to an increase in crime in large urban areas.

[trek5]

If the Canadian economy is in bad shape now, Why does the government continue to import in many immigrants from South Asia (Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Iraq, Iran, Sri lanka, Bangladesh etc.. ). All of those immigrants were mislead to believe that they would get well paid jobs immediately. The reality is much worse than they had ever anticipated. There are too many immigrants work in dismally low wage jobs. These immigrants are very frustrated and angry. Alot are unemployed in their field, therefore, the result of high unemployed young immigrants might lead to an increase in crime in large urban areas.
Immigrants from those countries you mentioned are coming here in droves, they are professionals who work as taxi drivers. Cleaners, deadened jobs that Canadians don’t want but they still have it better here ;then as a doctor in their own country making a hundred bucks a month and living in poverty.

Immigrants standard of living in Canada is a life of luxury for any immigrent from third world countries, they are not frustrated or angry, Canada is still better for them then facing deportation . the crime rate has increased amoungst young immigrents and they know that the penalty for crime here is a slap on the wrist , yet in their country they would be hanged or stoned to death .

[C Dick]

If you are young and have the personality, sales is a great way to make a lot of money early in your career, and it can lead to management or your own business. It is a career where hard work can pay off directly in more money, particularly if you are on commission.

The best kind of sales job is business to business, selling expensive things that people only buy once in a while (e.g. not something they order every month). If you are really good at it, you will do very, very well.

[Picard]

Canadian univerisities lack one critical factor : political and corporate connections for graduates to enter the work force. American colleges are highly politicized for each party. Every college is specialized in certain field such as politics, medicine, science or business. If you enter the college of your choice, then there are alot of high ranking members of that field present on campus all the time, this allows students to attend promotional event inorder to hook up with that political party. Hence, the student is much more likely to advance up his/her career field and social ladder.

[Ventura]

I agree with alot of the advice given, especially the one that suggests the use of headhunters, this can save you alot of time.

I hire several people in sales, marketing, and coordination positions each year and for every one that I hire I usually end up interviewing 5-8 people. Not because I want to but because it is hard to find good people. Most of the people that I hire are in the same position as the originator of this thread, just out of school with little experience. Some lack direction but most lack the ability to discuss in detail such corporate 'buzzword' concepts as teamwork, problem solver, and planning. Infact, it surprises me how little is understood of the aforementioned by the generation that is now looking for employment.

This means that your chances of finding employment greatly increase if you connect past experiences, whether it be school or a part time job, with the attributes above. And most importantly be prepared to demonstrate accountability, no one wants to hear excuses.

In closing you should be happy that there are so many people looking for work, it makes people who can embrace the above 'stick out'. There is a good book out there for people that finds themselves looking for employment it's called "Knock Em Dead 2005" It discusses resume planning, though I would'nt go into detail where Hobbies and Interests are concerned, and how to respond to a number of interview questions with the above in mind.

Good Luck

[Picard]

oh man. you guys talk all negative issue. Lets talk about something fun like sex. Lets make love not war !!

[rama putri]

...but im confused on what to do? what field should i get into? i dont know which direction to go....any other ideas?
Here's your problem. No one here's a sage, so find out yourself.

[trek5]

now that Jetsgo has let go 8000 workers the unemployment will jump up a couple of knotches .

[shakenbake]

I agree with alot of the advice given, especially the one that suggests the use of headhunters, this can save you alot of time.



I dealt with headhunters in the past, and it was a complete waste of my time. They treat perspective candidates like commodity items. They don't care about a person's abilities and flexibility. A lot of them don't even take a new candidate, fresh out of school, at all seriously. All they care about is their commisision.

Sorry, but that is my opinion for years of experience and the opinion of a lot of other colleagues of mine, past and present.
:mad:

[red]

now that Jetsgo has let go 8000 workers the unemployment will jump up a couple of knotches .
it was only 1,600