Avatar - Investment Nutcase Thread [Archive]

Gyaos

01-04-2010, 10:59 PM

1 billion dollars - 500 million dollars (upper end of cost, all in) = 500 million dollar profit in three weeks.
Possibly the best investment in the history of mankind.

You don't even know what you're talking about. The numbers you're quoting are wrong, first. Second, the return, so far, is $92 Million in profit, you forget taxes, in fact international taxes, that cuts it all away. The toys are a loss. The video game has done jackshit, we are waiting for that. Can I have an Angus burger with my avatar cup coke drink? Dumpster.

If it cost $100 Million, even $200 Million to make, I'd be up in the heavens. :p Less people went to Avatar, the ticket prices were raised. That's the issue.

Gyaos Baltar.

Gyaos

01-04-2010, 11:03 PM

Any good female nude scenes?

In Avatar? Go with X-Men, that blue chick is the one. The shitheads in Avatar look like bulimic problems ready for the NHS.

Gyaos Baltar.

arthurfonzerelli

01-05-2010, 05:55 PM

LOLOLOL
No, the numbers are right on.
$500 million in profit AND COUNTING.
Anything else?
Moron.

Rockslinger

01-05-2010, 06:28 PM

Why didn't George Lukas make this movie?

Gyaos

01-05-2010, 07:16 PM

LOLOLOL
No, the numbers are right on.
$500 million in profit AND COUNTING.
Anything else?
Moron.

Dude, your books are from a gumball machine. Assuming your $500M to make the movie is correct (it's not, it was $750M added for merchandise, GAAT, the list is fucking endless), they never got cash to make it. They used debt to make it.

I remember Richie Cunningham graduated from college. The Fonz didn't.

Gyaos Baltar.

Gyaos

01-05-2010, 07:18 PM

Why didn't George Lukas make this movie?

George Lucas didn't make it because he has the actual cash (he owns the Star Wars franchise.....you have GOT TO see that contract from 1976, I have a copy of it.....amazing).

Lucas would have no intentions to pay $750M in cash in which the return was $750M, where the return on merchandise was at a -$0.00 return on debt. Merchandise is what really brought in the cash for Star Wars.

Gyaos Baltar.

Rockslinger

01-05-2010, 07:26 PM

George Lucas didn't make it because he has the actual cash (he owns the Star Wars franchise.....you have GOT TO see that contract from 1976, I have a copy of it.....amazing).

Too bad George Lukas will always be known as a "one trick pony". Has he done anything else besides Star Wars?

Gyaos

01-05-2010, 08:44 PM

Too bad George Lukas will always be known as a "one trick pony". Has he done anything else besides Star Wars?

You're joking, yeah? I know you Rockslinger, you're a funny guy. I'm sure you have heard of "The Young Indiana Jones Cronicles", right?
Oh yeah, that TV show that came from Lucas' RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK and all those other Harrison Ford films! :D

Gyaos Baltar

arthurfonzerelli

01-05-2010, 09:47 PM

500 MILLION in profit, and counting.
BIGGEST PROFIT IN FILM HISTORY.
:D
(You're aware, of course, that the cost of making a film is, as a business expense, tax deductible, right? ... No, I didn't think you were. ROTFL)

masterchief

01-06-2010, 09:46 AM

Dude, your books are from a gumball machine. Assuming your $500M to make the movie is correct (it's not, it was $750M added for merchandise, GAAT, the list is fucking endless),

Ah….here we go again. You know you really don’t have a clue as to what you are talking about, is that why you keep moving this same conversation from one forum to another once you’re found out to be daft as to what you are posting about?

Well since you once again feel the need….

The actually production costs for Avatar were under $500 Million.

The merchandising costs are never calculated in the production costs of the film, especially tie-in licensing (like Mc Donald’s). Those are actually monies that are paid in advance to the producers, so in the end whether any of it fails they producers/license granters have made their profit off of it already.

But none of that is calculated or applied to the production costs of the film, but if you actually knew what you were talking about you’d know this.

As for the taxes? Are you really that stupid? Most of these companies write off the taxes incurred as expenses, not to mention that to be proactive they set-up shop in areas that offer them tax incentives in the start that minimizes those costs (the new battlefield being VIS FX tax incentives)

As for advertising and promotion, once again that’s not a cost of production but one of distribution and should be calculated separately..

But these are all things you’d know about if you really understood the world of film production , film financing and distribution….and didn’t just regurgitate numbers and factoids you found on Wikipedia.

From day 1 you’re been trying to claim that this film would be/is a financial failure…funny how it’s been nothing but the opposite and has now into its third week of release shown no signs of slowing down.

Gyaos

01-06-2010, 09:52 AM

Ah….here we go again. You know you really don’t have a clue as to what you are talking about.

Actually, I started this thread just so you could enter it, masterchief. You said it best, "most companies write off the taxes incurred as expenses." Yep. EXACTLY. Avatar and masterchef knows this one best.

Don't worry, I know you're getting your numbers from the triad.

Gyaos.

Gyaos

01-06-2010, 09:55 AM

(You're aware, of course, that the cost of making a film is, as a business expense, tax deductible, right? ... No, I didn't think you were. ROTFL)

That's right, which proves your profit claim isn't even close. The EXPENSE is what you're not being truthfully being told and it's an expense of debt, not cash.
Don't worry, masterchief knows, he eats Chex cereal.

Gyaos.

masterchief

01-06-2010, 10:04 AM

Actually, I started this thread just so you could enter it, masterchief. You said it best, "most companies write off the taxes incurred as expenses." Yep. EXACTLY.
Gyaos.

So you agree with me, so you then admit that your numbers about production costs for Avatar are wrong and you have no clue as to what you’re talking about.

I actually get my numbers and facts from actual real world experience, not by reading box office mojo, Variety and Wikipedia. That's the difference between us, so run along ….. Isn’t this your time to go scour more "facts' from the internet to repost later and try to act smart?

I'm not the one being run from forum to forum once everyone realizes I don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about. That honour goes to you.

masterchief

01-06-2010, 10:15 AM

That's right, which proves your profit claim isn't even close. The EXPENSE is what you're not being truthfully being told and it's an expense of debt, not cash.
Gyaos.

What?

Of course no one knows the total expenses, those figures can’t be calculated so quickly…sometime it takes at least a year following the end of principle photography to know what the actual production costs are, especially in this day and age of film production tax incentives. So what is offered up is the best estimation which is usually pretty close. There is no hiding of facts here, aside from the need for instant gratification of what the film costs once it's released.

And of course it’s an expense of debt. Do you really think that on day one of pre-production someone walked into the production offices of Avatar and gave them a sack full of money? Are you rally that naïve as to how the world of film production operates?

Try learning about completion bonds to start with (and I mean leaning, not looking it up on Wikipedia), maybe then you’d know what you were talking about

Gyaos

01-06-2010, 10:36 AM

So you agree with me, so you then admit that your numbers about production costs for Avatar are wrong and you have no clue as to what you’re talking about.
I actually get my numbers and facts from actual real world experience, not by reading box office mojo, Variety and Wikipedia. That's the difference between us, so run along ….. Isn’t this your time to go scour more "facts' from the internet to repost later and try to act smart?
I'm not the one being run from forum to forum once everyone realizes I don't have a clue as to what I'm talking about. That honour goes to you.

Dude, numbers from "actual real world experience" means your numbers are from incorrect sources. But why convince someone like you who's left have is on his cock, somewhere in Yellow Knife.
Go ahead, keep quoting the phrases BOM, VAR and Wikipedia. You write those names so well.

The production costs for Avatar are $750 Million USD. Don't worry, GS won't tell you the truth about "their loan". You're just banking on MGM's library return.

Gyaos Baltar.

Gyaos

01-06-2010, 10:39 AM

And of course it’s an expense of debt.

ROTFLMAO! Really? Gee, who would have thunk it. Since you quote Wikipedia's name a lot, maybe they'll go to all advertising. Then they'll really be in trouble as the copyright infringers they already are.

Gotta run, the ship has sailed buddy so start screaming "Banzai".

Gyaos Baltar.

masterchief

01-06-2010, 10:46 AM

Dude, numbers from "actual real world experience" means your numbers are from incorrect sources. The production costs for Avatar are $750 Million USD.
Okay .

Well if my facts (I’ve never quotes any numbers, just facts as to how the worlds of film production and financing work)are from incorrect sources (which is quite funny since my chosen profession is film production), then step up..show us all how your numbers aren’t.

It’s easy for you to keep posting lies and half truths, but you’re yet to produce any real verifiable evidence aside from conjecture and factoids you’ve pulled off of the net.

So come on, show us how you are right and every other person out there is wrong. Come on show us what you’ve been saying all along, that Avatar is a financial flop, but this time prove it. Prove it and I’ll be the first one to admit you were right…..but you won’t do that will you..because you can’t.

So step up to the plate, or go back into the peanut gallery.

Until you do, all you keep posting is nonsensical ramblings.

Gyaos

01-06-2010, 04:16 PM

Okay .
Well if my facts (I’ve never quotes any numbers, just facts as to how the worlds of film production and financing work).

If you don't post numbers, your opinion is irrelevant. Resistance is futile.

Gyaos.

masterchief

01-06-2010, 07:40 PM

If you don't post numbers, your opinion is irrelevant. Resistance is futile.
Gyaos.

There's a surprise...
Since you can't produce any numbers to prove any of the so called "facts" you keep spewing...your opinion (like you) is nothing but irelevant noise.

newguy27

01-06-2010, 11:40 PM

Gyaos again in his fantasy land making up whatever numbers he wants. I'm surprised he didnt say a it costs a "Gazillion dollars" (insert Dr. Evil laugh with pinky point here) to make.

Gyaos, you got burned bad in your similarly stupid KIng Kong thread, why look even more silly with this?

blackrock13

01-07-2010, 11:21 AM

If you don't post numbers, your opinion is irrelevant.

Gyaos.

Wha? Another oriental pearl of wisdom.

Don't worry MC/NG27, you'll get use to it.

Cycleguy007

01-07-2010, 07:31 PM

Too bad George Lukas will always be known as a "one trick pony". Has he done anything else besides Star Wars?
Huh?????

Ever heard of ILM? Industrial Light and Magic- responsible for TONS of special effects in movies done these days.

Ever heard of Lucas Arts? Video Games.... HUGE $$$$

Ever heard of Lucasfilms?

Gyaos

01-07-2010, 08:51 PM

I'm surprised he didnt say a it costs a "Gazillion dollars" (insert Dr. Evil laugh with pinky point here) to make. Gyaos, you got burned bad in your similarly stupid KIng Kong thread, why look even more silly with this?

YEAH!! We have a winner!! Finally, someone came out to find the REAL reason I started this thread! Give this guy a gold bone! Can you hear those little dogs going "yap, yap, yap!"

We have $1.2 Billion with Avatar!

Some guys like masterchief never studied mathematics using the letter i (you know, the "imaginary number" where i squared equals -1). I can't trust people that don't cough up numbers. Those are the blokes that would work for a Galleon, or a Madoff....and end up making very little.

Okay, DOUBLE IT.

Gyaos Baltar.

masterchief

01-07-2010, 09:10 PM

YEAH!! We have a winner!! Finally, someone came out to find the REAL reason I started this thread! Give this guy a gold bone!
We have $1.2 Billion with Avatar!Some guys like masterchief never studied mathematics using the letter i (you know, the "imaginary number" where i squared equals -1). I can't trust people that don't cough up numbers. Those are the blokes that would work for a Galleon, or a Madoff....and end up making very little.
Okay, DOUBLE IT..

Blah blah blah

You can keep posting doublespeak and nonsense all you want, but you've yet again failed to produce any real facts of numbers to prove any of your points.
So once again, you're nothing but alot of hot air....and full of it.

Yawn.

blackrock13

01-07-2010, 09:24 PM

Blah blah blah

You can keep posting doublespeak and nonsense all you want, but you've yet again failed to produce any real facts of numbers to prove any of your points.
So once again, you're nothing but alot of hot air....and full of it.

Yawn.

Wait till Gayass starts calling you a newbie. Then you'll feel the love, believe me.

Gyaos

01-07-2010, 09:57 PM

Blah blah blah
You can keep posting doublespeak and nonsense all you want, but you've yet again failed to produce any real facts of numbers to prove any of your points.
So once again, you're nothing but alot of hot air....and full of it.
Yawn.

And you've contradicted shit. You and blackrock13 can squeeze the Charmin. :p

Gyaos.

blackrock13

01-07-2010, 10:08 PM

And you've contradicted shit. You and blackrock13 can squeeze the Charmin. :p

Gyaos.

As opposed to your practice of using your left hand and a bowl of warm water.

masterchief

01-07-2010, 11:05 PM

And you've contradicted shit. You and blackrock13 can squeeze the Charmin. :p
Gyaos.
Really?

Care to tell me where I've done this...or is this another case of you not being able to back up what you post? Looking back at your posting history it seems to be a common occurance with you.

You can obfuscate and insult me all you want, but in the end you've yet againfailed to produce any reputable facts to back up anything that you've been claiming.

So all this shows is how much of a childish liar you are.

wollensak

01-08-2010, 11:42 AM

Avatar has grossed $1.14 billion in 3 weeks. Only higher grossing film is Titanic, again by Cameron.

This thing will probably go over $2 billion in another couple of weeks.

Writer

01-08-2010, 12:37 PM

Gyaos

01-08-2010, 12:38 PM

Really?
Care to tell me where I've done this...or is this another case of you not being able to back up what you post?

Dude, I present an argument with numbers and you do not provide numbers that contradict, in fact you went on-the-record by saying you don't provide numbers. That means, your argument is mute. Don't worry, your demo tape at Much Music hasn't a chance.

Gyaos Baltar.

blackrock13

01-08-2010, 12:39 PM

Just a little point of interest during this epiphanal moment for Gayass, the highest grossing film of all time, I'd heard this some time back, accounting for inflation is 'Gone with The Wind'. It cost approx 3.5 million to make (scandalous at the time) and as of August 2008, it has grossed approx $1.5 BILLION; that is, for those who love figures 5000% return in 70 years, approx 70% per year. Others can be found here.

http://www.scene-stealers.com/top-10/top-10-grossing-movies-adjusted-for-inflation/

Now back to the thread and Guyass' pregnant pause.

blackrock13

01-08-2010, 12:45 PM

This is a retarded thread. The fact is that nobody but the accountants really know.

You guys also forgot to take into consideration that the longer it's in theatres the more money they make from the release vs the production company. It's diminishing returns and theatre chains make more as it climbs.

ROI on this movie is very low no matter how you look at it because it is such a huge II.

However something like Blair Witch and Paranormal activity have huge ROI, or even smaller movies like My big fat greek wedding and Chasing Amy had rather large ROI.

The other tricky part here is that the returns are often front end loaded in that up to 80-90% of the gate goes back to the production houses in the first couple of weeks and then less in time. As stated, the theaters don't make much initially, but do better in time.

It's too bad my earlier post got jumped. It lost a lot because Gayass woke up early, but the point was made.

Gyaos

01-08-2010, 12:46 PM

You guys also forgot to take into consideration that the longer it's in theatres the more money they make from the release vs the production company.

Not exactly, but close. What one has to take into account is the number of customers going to theatres is declining (and DVD sales are really dropping), so the only way the industry keeps up is RAISING admission prices. Avatar is trying to get return customers to the 3-D theatres, which are dramically smaller in number than they will be in 2012. Looking at the percentages from NA vs foreign is the proof. What Avatar is doing is a small ROI return for 2 - 5 years from now, when 3D theatres increase in numbers......that is if GS "donates" the money to build them. masterchief will say I'm wrong there too. blackrock13 is still looking for EBC. One day, they'll get together and do an Abbott & Costello meets The Invisible Man. Neither one of them know the industry (especially the part outside the box), except for being a gaffer.

Gyaos Baltar.

blackrock13

01-08-2010, 12:56 PM

I'm still trying to figure out EBC, can't translate his gibberish? Can someone help? Guyass thinks if he uses buzz words it sounds like he know what he's talking about.

masterchief

01-08-2010, 01:00 PM

Dude, I present an argument with numbers and you do not provide numbers that contradict,.
Actually you produced numbers you could not provide any facts to back with. You keep spewing made-up figures and expect everyone to belive it as gospel, much like your claims that Avatar was going to be a financial flop.What I provided was an understanding to how film financing and cost allocation works, outside of the innacurate "facts" you keep reposting.

I don't need to provide numbers to contridict lies and half-truths.

Funny how once again, you still haven't provided any proof to your claims yet. it's all I've asked from you and all you've done is dance around the issue and thrown around lame insults. Having trouble finding any?

Yawn....

Gyaos

01-08-2010, 01:03 PM

I don't need to provide numbers to contridict lies and half-truths.

Yes, you do. Otherwise, you don't have any numbers. You're jibberish. You didn't provide any facts to contradict (nor a single number to dispute mine, which are fact).
All you are doing is "strenuously objecting". Overruled.

Keep talkin', I'm going to The Hilton.

Gyaos.

Gyaos

01-08-2010, 01:08 PM

I'm still trying to figure out EBC.

When you remove your diaper, someone on TERB will tell you.....farkin' macadamia nut.

Gyaos.

blackrock13

01-08-2010, 01:18 PM

When you remove your diaper, someone on TERB will tell you.....farkin' macadamia nut.

Gyaos.

I really wasn't expecting any help from you Gayass and right on queue you show your colours. For someone who screams for numbers, numbers, numbers all the time, the only ones you've offered were in your initial two posts and they've clearly been shown to be too simple, wrong and now out of date. Aside from that, you've come out true to form and fallen back to your time tested tactic of spewing non sensical diatribe and clap trap. Then that's followed closely by ducking and diving. Keep up the good work.

I thought you said you were going to the Hilton. Got a call back did you, more dishes to wash?

masterchief

01-08-2010, 01:33 PM

[QUOTE=Gyaos;2935800]Yes, you do. Otherwise, you don't have any numbers. You're jibberish. You didn't provide any facts to contradict (nor a single number to dispute mine, which are fact).[QUOTE]
Fine, if this is how childish you need to be.

Let’s do this one more time.

You’ve strenuously claimed and argued that the budget for Avatar is $750 Million dollars, which is not what is being reported by any other reputable news source or the studio itself. So where did this magical number of yours come from?

You’ve also claimed that the merchandising and licensing costs are factored into the production budget, and made other wild accusations about tax write offs and such.

You also originally claimed that the film would be a financial flop.

I've asked you repeatedly to provide any sources to back this up, but to date you have not. All you have done is tried to obfuscate (via childish name calling) the discussion to avoid every having to back up any of your so called ‘facts”.

So once again…I ask you to provide some facts, and the minute you do I’ll admit to your point. Until them you are nothing more than a wannabe (more likely a never was)making lots of noise.

masterchief

01-08-2010, 01:37 PM

Guyass thinks if he uses buzz words it sounds like he know what he's talking about.
Of course he does, he thinks if by using some industry related buzzwords he picked up from Box-Office Mojo or variety he can try to pass himself off as someone who knows what he’s talking about.

All it really does is shows how much of a buffoon he really is.

I’ve been giving him ample chances to prove his point, but instead he tries to confuse the issue with lame insults. I told him show me reputable facts to back up your claims and I will admit that you are right…to this date…nothing.

Maybe he needs to be left alone to go through his back issue collection of Premiere Magazine to find some more cool phrases to use in his next irrelevant post.

Gyaos

01-08-2010, 07:08 PM

masterchief,

Take a walk. Provide the actual numbers if you're so real. You don't, so you "object" and I overrule you.
No wait, masterchief "strenuously objects". Oh, well in that case, I'll have to take some time to reconsider.

My numbers are facts, because you can't identify the cost for something else, outside the box.
I see your feeble attempt for me to tell you, so you can acquire free strength. But forget it,
your experience is that much greater.

Dude, Much Music has rejected your work. Can't help you with MTV.
And the comment is "better to be a has been than a never was".
Plagiarism isn't accepted for extra credit.

Gyaos Baltar.

masterchief

01-08-2010, 07:39 PM

masterchief,Take a walk. Provide the actual numbers if you're so real. You don't, so you "object" and I overrule you...
Sigh…..

Once again you fail to do the simplest thing…back up your claims.

My numbers are facts, because you can't identify the cost for something else, outside the box.
I see your feeble attempt for me to tell you, so you can acquire free strength. But forget it,
your experience is that much greater..
By the way your numbers are not facts, since you can’t produce any evidence to support them, therefore they are nothing more than a guess; and that’s all you can do is guess (badly that is) and try to confuse people into believing you think you know what you talk about.

But I’ll play your little game, since it will do nothing more than once again show everyone what a buffoon you are.

Since you’ve repeatedly claimed that the production budget of Avatar is “$750 Million Dollars”
Hmmm. But, but, but, it cost $750 Million USD to make it.I’d like you to prove your figures. You keep throwing back how you numbers are supposedly facts, yet they don’t seem to match any other recognized reporting of the reported production buget/costs. Take a look at just a small sampling here…

New York Times – $230 Million
Washington Post – $230 Million
AP – $250 Million
BBC – $200 Million
Canadian Press – $250 Million
Variety – $300 Million
Hollywood Reporter - $250 Million
Production Weekly – $300 Million
IMDB – $350 Million

Wow….none of these seem to agree with your repeated claims” of the budget being $750 Million, actually they’re nowhere near that figure you seemed to conjure up. So what you’re saying is that all these reputable news organizations are wrong, and that only you are right, that only you really know what the production budget of this film really is?

Come on.

Well I’ve shown my numbers…now where are yours?

Or is this the time that you’ll come up with yet another lame attempt to insult me to avoid having to answer?

blackrock13

01-08-2010, 08:00 PM

................ Pause! Shhhhhhhhhhhhh! He's thinking. Be vewy vewy qwiet now! He's nowhere to be found in the world of Terb. I think he's gone away to hide. Again.

studebone

01-10-2010, 09:06 PM

The more I read this thread, the more I question gyaos'sanity.
Where do you get your numbers from??
If thy were estimates, please have the decency to update them. I hope you have not chosen accounting as a career!
Avatar's official budget is aroung 250 millions and after 4 weeks it has earned over $429 million on domestic screens.
Now that is what one would call a profit.
Some sources add another 150 millions to the production costs, but even if that is accurate, the movie is still profitable. Besides all shows have been sold out for 4 weeks and counting, and with a ticket price 2.5 times higher than your regular flick, you'd need less ticket sales to turn in a profit. Avatar is still #1 at the box office and it mostlikely will stay at that spot for at least 2 or 3 weeks.
At the rate of 50 millions + per weeks, there is no way this movie can be said not to be profitable - Nutcase!

Please do some research before and after you talk.
Let me help:
http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1952794,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avatar_%282009_film%29
http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/boxoffice/weekend/bycgross/
http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/weekends/moreweekends.htm?page=4&p=.htm

It is ok to be mistaken Mr. starwars/powerranger!