Best Way to Buy a Condo?

[Keebler Elf]

I'm thinking about buying a new condo. I'm currently renting but I'll probably be in the market for one in about a year's time. What is a good way to begin? Other than looking at new condo developers' websites, is there somewhere best to go to? A real estate agent perhaps?

I'm looking in the GTA area, probably in the west end (not downtown TO), preferably near a subway line. Doesn't matter to me whether it's new or old, though I realize new could take years to build. I wouldn't mind buying one that's a little rundown and fixing it up, though I realize location is ever important.

Really, I'm just looking for suggestions right now...

[Svend]

If you decide on getting a resale, have an agent since it's no charge when you're buying but wait until you're serious about looking. They can be helpful when negotiating.
If you decide to get something being built, check out the newspaper ads in the Saturday paper and get an idea of what you like. It could take over a year before you move in. Check out monthly fees and what you get, make sure that condo living with its rules is right for you.

[LancsLad]

If you are looking at resales make sure you get a review of the condo corp finances. Get an opinion that the reserve is prudent and if possible info from condo corp as to any possible special assessments.

[openwide]

if you have a year to wait then wait 2 as thats when you will surely hit the jackpot

with 100,000 condos in the.... being built or ...... to be built category, and interest rates going up just pick and choose a really sweet spot and buying something with at least 1 but better 2 plus bedrooms
all the people in those tiny little condos are heading for a huge dose of humble pie!!!

just my opinion~!!

[Bear669]

if you have a year to wait then wait 2 as thats when you will surely hit the jackpot

with 100,000 condos in the.... being built or ...... to be built category, and interest rates going up just pick and choose a really sweet spot and buying something with at least 1 but better 2 plus bedrooms
all the people in those tiny little condos are heading for a huge dose of humble pie!!!

just my opinion~!!

Yup.

Get away from the GTA core, negotiate a long term lease in a place you like, and stay fully invested.

However, if you really must, make the smallest dp, and get the longest fixed interest rate you can.

[tboy]

And it is never a mistake to buy property....but as for buying something that needs fixing up, beware of the building's condition as well as the location. Depending on where you buy in the west end, you could end up with a pink elephant.

Remember the most important rule in real estate: location location location.

The advice about looking at the condo corp's books is so true. Special assessments can kill you. It might not be a bad idea to take a look around the building at it's overall condition. You might also want to check out the mechanics of the building too. A great idea is to buy a unit that has it's own heating/ac unit as opposed to a building wide system. Not only do you have more control over your unit's temperature but you are also not subject to the costs of replacing the building's unit.

Take great care in examining maintenance fees as well. Some building's fees are as much,if not more than a mortgage payment could be and you might be paying for amenities that you will never use.

[Bear669]

And it is never a mistake to buy property.....

A falsehood fostered by the postwar (i.e. WWII) boom in Canada and some other parts of the world.

There are countless examples, historical and recent times where it was a BIG mistake:

Japan- 1980's
Great Britain 1815 (realty prices recovered in...... 1914!)
Toronto Condos 1970's
etc etc etc

[Sheik]

Bear, its not a falsehood, its like any other investment you make.

You take your risks but overall, property is the most stable and always on an upward inclide when taken over several years. Yes there was a bust in the 70's and the 80's when people went overboard purchasing property on speculation. Anytime speculation enters the marketplace in a large capacity, you're heading for a market correction.

In the last 20 years of buying and selling my principle residences, I've maybe lost about $20k in real estate and made more than a million in profit, tax free.

[tboy]

A falsehood fostered by the postwar (i.e. WWII) boom in Canada and some other parts of the world.

There are countless examples, historical and recent times where it was a BIG mistake:

Japan- 1980's
Great Britain 1815 (realty prices recovered in...... 1914!)
Toronto Condos 1970's
etc etc etc

Well, it is a good thing Keeb wasn't buying property in GB in 1815 then isn't it? Sheesh, get real will ya? Look at the dates you quoted.....he's talking about buying next year +/- not back in 1970....

I will give you this though: one CAN lose money in real estate. You can overpay for property that will never increase in value (swampland), you can buy in areas that historically are high crime areas (jane and finch) and you can buy commercial property that is highly contaminated with toxins (where tent city used to be next to cherry st). But if one uses their head, you will always get a good ROI on your real estate investment.

That old saying still holds true: buy land cuz god sure ain't making any more of it!

[thunder0702]

buy it in cash stashed in an aluminum briefcase

Exactly:p

[aries]

If your in no hurry then you should check out Square 1 in Mississauga, they have a ton of condos going up and they won't be able to sell them all. I just bought one there myself for a decent price, if I could have waited I would have. If you're concerned about transit, the transit hub is right across the street and you won't have a problem getting downtown.

Why wouldn't you get an agent? It costs you nothing when purchasing the condo and they can help bring the price down a bit.

[simontemplar]

Get a real estate agent. We know what to do to help you find the place and situation that suits you best.

[tboy]

Get a real estate agent. We know what to do to help you find the place and situation that suits you best.

Well, I'd have to agree BUT if the one you pick isn't listening to you, find another asap.

Here;s what happened to me:

A female friend of mine's parents both were R/E agents so when I started looking she set me up with them in their office to go over my wants/nees/desires. I said I wanted in a condo:
1) at least 1 bedroom with den but preferably a 2 bedroom
2) low maintenance
3) no health club
4) parking
5) no closer than 3 main streets from yonge and no farther than 20

Well, they were showing me bachelors, some with healthclubs, right on yonge or bay, no parking, mississauga, and some whose maintenance fees were double what my mortgage would be ($700.00 per month maintenance, WTF is up with that??)

They also told me I couldn't afford to buy.....

So I asked around and someone reccommeded Sean R. at Remax. First of all he sat with me for over an hour getting to know me and figure out what I wanted before even opening a webpage or a book. After that hour he took me to a place. I liked it. He showed me a couple of other places but I really liked the first one. Within 3 weeks he'd showed me exactly what I wanted (loft), for a great price, and I put in an offer and moved in 2 months later. So much for me not being able to afford what I wanted eh?

Many R/E agents put their own spin on what they want to sell you as opposed to what you want. Again, if they aren't listening to you, LEAVE.

[Keebler Elf]

If your in no hurry then you should check out Square 1 in Mississauga, they have a ton of condos going up and they won't be able to sell them all.

I know a guy who bought there in the past year or so and lost $30 grand. But I am considering the area; I'm just waiting for the correction. :D

[LancsLad]

I know a guy who bought there in the past year or so and lost $30 grand. But I am considering the area; I'm just waiting for the correction. :D


Real estate is generally NOT short term, poor planning to buy and loose 30K within a year.

[fun-guy]

if you have a year to wait then wait 2 as thats when you will surely hit the jackpot

with 100,000 condos in the.... being built or ...... to be built category, and interest rates going up just pick and choose a really sweet spot and buying something with at least 1 but better 2 plus bedrooms
all the people in those tiny little condos are heading for a huge dose of humble pie!!!

just my opinion~!!

Yea, I heard this same arguement about New York over 15 years ago, "Condos are way over priced in downtown Manhatten and way too small, the market is gonna dive!" Five years ago when I was in New York, guess what, they're still building condos, but there is one major difference, the costs went through the roof. Today, I'm hard pressed to find a bachelor unit around 400 sq ft for under a million. I was in Rome last year, and Paris and London a couple of years ago, same problem, lots of condos in the downtown core and extremely expensive, but few for sale. Toronto is not in the same league as these international cities today, but maybe like them 10 to 15 years ago, it's all relative. It's no accident that the Ritz, Trump, Four Seasons and now the Shangra La are all building super luxury condos/hotel combos in the Toronto core, these are not stupid companies and are quite aware and have studied the international market, the changing demographics and lifestyle changes of the aging baby boomers, they chose Toronto at this time for a reason, basically the Toronto core is way undervalued in their opinion.

Condos are like commodities to me, I'm very selective and buy units based on location, views, size, etc...., there are several factors including a financial formula I use, and you have to be able to carry them through the correction cycles, just like any other commodity, ie. stocks. This is not for the amateur or the faint of heart, if you can't stomach the down cycles, don't get into this. In 30 years of buying and selling real estate, I lost money once, in the Vancouver condo market about 15 years ago because I couldn't wait and had to get out, if I would have waited longer, I would have made money there as well.

Real estate can be extremely lucrative, but you have to know what you're doing, don't think for a second anyone can walk right in, buy a unit and making money is guaranteed, far from it. Can you lose money? Absolutely, and many do, they're usually the ones who haven't done enough homework, don't understand the principles of real estate, panic, get swept up in the buying craze, and don't have the experience, etc......

[tboy]

I know a guy who bought there in the past year or so and lost $30 grand. But I am considering the area; I'm just waiting for the correction.

As stated, that is very poor planning on that "guys" part. I will assume he had to get out else why would anyone sell below what they paid? I do have a question though: why the hell would he buy and sell within a year? Was he trying to speculate on the property? If so I wouldn't do it with condos, I'd do it with new home builds.

I've heard stories about people who have bought a house in a new developement and sold it for $50,000.00 more without even taking possession of it.

BTW: driving home from up north recently I saw a place that was advertising model homes. I'd love to buy a place right next to a model home. Hell, hopefully she will invite some of her other model friends over and if I'm lucky, she'll put in a POOL!!!:D

[Keebler Elf]

I dunno exactly why he sold, but he did say that all the condos were being bought up by one particular ethnic group (his words not mine) and it was having an effect on his resale so he got out sooner rather than later.

I'm looking at this more from the perspective of it's better to own than rent rather than as an overall investment strategy of buying and selling, buying and selling, etc.

[tboy]

I dunno exactly why he sold, but he did say that all the condos were being bought up by one particular ethnic group (his words not mine) and it was having an effect on his resale so he got out sooner rather than later.

I'm looking at this more from the perspective of it's better to own than rent rather than as an overall investment strategy of buying and selling, buying and selling, etc.

Well, it is always better to own than rent. Even though we pay through the nose in interest we'd still be paying probably the same amount per month but have nothing to show for it when we move....At least with owning you have the equity of the property.

[Bear669]

Bear, its not a falsehood, its like any other investment you make.

You take your risks but overall, property is the most stable and always on an upward inclide when taken over several years. Yes there was a bust in the 70's and the 80's when people went overboard purchasing property on speculation. Anytime speculation enters the marketplace in a large capacity, you're heading for a market correction.

In the last 20 years of buying and selling my principle residences, I've maybe lost about $20k in real estate and made more than a million in profit, tax free.

Good for you (and I mean that sincerely). Obviously you have a lot of self-discipline and good focus with your homes. BUT, the words I object to are 'never' and 'always'. But you have acknowledged some problems with R/E that can happen and other good posts point out more. My money has been made mostly in energy stocks (over several years) but I certainly would never say it 'always' goes up! Also, I dont handle the money, I leave it to the best manager in the world. I might have screwed it up myself.

Some unsophisticated guy derided my reference to 1815. Who is to say that 2006 will not BE like 1815? The best long term investors and managers take history VERY seriously. The Roman Empire (and many others) has lots to teach us about debasing currency and inflation among other things.

I am NOT against R/E as an investment per se. I just urge everyone to treat it carefully, and as you say>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Your best comment......" ITS LIKE ANY OTHER INVESTMENT".........

[Bear669]

Well, it is always better to own than rent. Even though we pay through the nose in interest we'd still be paying probably the same amount per month but have nothing to show for it when we move....At least with owning you have the equity of the property.

:rolleyes:
Nope.

I have lost money(and so have many others) because there was NO equity at sale time.
I rent. I pay a pittance for a place I love because it is NOT in a good GTA location. I am not responsible for utilities, fees or taxes, and I have a long term lease with a tiny fixed inflation escalation.
My fund manager has made me almost 30% p.a. (average) over 25 years. I am not taking 1c out for a downpayment. (But for the ladies? you BET!)

[tboy]

:rolleyes:
Nope.

I have lost money(and so have many others) because there was NO equity at sale time.
I rent. I pay a pittance for a place I love because it is NOT in a good GTA location. I am not responsible for utilities, fees or taxes, and I have a long term lease with a tiny fixed inflation escalation.
My fund manager has made me almost 30% p.a. (average) over 25 years. I am not taking 1c out for a downpayment. (But for the ladies? you BET!)

Ok let's compare apples to apples then. If you're living in an unpopular area and pay little in rent because of it then it goes without saying that any properties for sale in that same area will be lower in value no?

If one sells a property and has no equity in it then they outta have their head examined. 1) they must have bought it with no money down (silly) otherwise you'd at least have THAT equity in it 2) They refinanced the property to the total value of the property which means you've (figuratively speaking) used the equity already 3) The place wasn't maintained which means the value dropped substantially 4) you sold at the worst possibly moment.....

Yes, I agree, purchasing property must be treated like an investment and if you don't maintain that investment, you'll lose. Just like any stock bond or investment certificate.

If one loses on property now, they have to be doing something wrong with purchasers getting into bidding wars over a property and sellers getting 10 20 and sometimes 50 grand over their asking price.

As for your historical references I agree, many previous models will tend to repeat themselves but you have to admit, nowhere in the modern world will property values decline and not recover for 100 yrs? Even with the recession of the early 90's it only took 4 yrs for the economy to recover and everyone STILL made/can make money on property bought then.

For eg: in 1988 starter homes were going for $79,000.00 about 1/2 hr drive from Yonge and Bloor. Now those houses are going for $500,000.00 and starter homes are averaging $249,000.00 and they are 1 1/2 to 2 hrs + drive from Yonge and Bloor.....

[Keebler Elf]

If you decide on getting a resale, have an agent since it's no charge when you're buying...

Is this true? Don't both the buying and selling agents charge a commission?

[Tangwhich]

Is this true? Don't both the buying and selling agents charge a commission?

Yes, but the selling pays for both of them.

[simontemplar]

Is this true? Don't both the buying and selling agents charge a commission?
No. contact me and I'll discuss it all if you like...

[Mia.Colpa]

Sheesh, I hope no one on this board takes anything they read on here to heart when buying a condo. Take what you read with a grain of salt. See a professional if you really want solid advice.

[kk56]

Going back to original thread:

Pick real estate agent, let her ( you may get a free date) show and keep showing.
do not sign any contract. If she gives U attitude, go elsewhere. No penalty.

After a while U will have an idea.

Unless U love the place, put a low offer. eg 10-15 K or more less. If U lose it, big deal. No penalty.

Of course check out things, status cerificate, talk to people in the building...

Parking always a plus. Always U can rent it out. Make sure it is owed.

Go for low maint. fees.

[21pro]

if you have a year to wait then wait 2 as thats when you will surely hit the jackpot

with 100,000 condos in the.... being built or ...... to be built category, and interest rates going up just pick and choose a really sweet spot and buying something with at least 1 but better 2 plus bedrooms
all the people in those tiny little condos are heading for a huge dose of humble pie!!!

just my opinion~!!


AREN'T YOU GLAD YOU DIDN'T LISTEN TO THIS ADVICE TWO YEARS AGO!

[mmouse]

Choose the hottest real estate agent and use this as an excuse to get in her pants. Then buy a condo directly from the sellers agent. This will enable you to negotiate 2.5% discount off the bat, since they would normally pay that to your agent. And if you're lucky you'll get laid too.

[CapitalGuy]

Why did this ancient thread pop up all of a sudden? No one seems to have bumped it since mmouse in 09-06-2008, yet its page 1.

[OddSox]

That old saying still holds true: buy land cuz god sure ain't making any more of it!

Keep in mind that when buying a condominium you aren't actually getting title to any land! LOL