How many SP's actually save money?

[fuji]

So, maybe this is a matter of those who speak up are the ones with something to be proud of, but whenever an SP writes about her finances on terb, it seems she is doing great, has a house, and savings, and all her ducks in a row.

However, whenever I ask an SP about this in real life, it turns out she had not saved nearly as much as she wanted, she's not sure where the money went, etc.

I also have a couple of friends who are in this industry, one a stripper, one an SP. The stripper is always totally broke despite having huge tits and good service--I have no doubt her business is brisk. But she's always broke, and shows up at work at the end of the month trying to scrape together rent. She's an awesome girl, lots of fun, nice, but where does the money go?

The SP's nost quite as bad, but considering how much money flows through her hands, wow. She does have a condo that she has paid about $80k of capital into. But she has been working for something like 6 years now, and I know she works every day and sees at least three guys a day. Do the math, she has seen somewhere upwards of $800k flow through her hands (tax free, ahem), and all she has to show for it is $80k in her condo.

Those are the two I know first hand, and I've talked to their friends, and I've talked to other strippers and other SP's, and honestly, I mostly hear that they don't have money, even though I can see they see a lot of it.

So what is it? Does the industry attract the sort of chick who can't save? Is there something about the fast easy money that makes you lose your common sense? Does the job change otherwise sensible people into big spenders somehow?

The thing is this job is not a life-long career. You'll make your best money in your 20's when you are youngest and prettiest. It'll burn you out too (see jaded thread). So it's very much a "get in, make your money, get out and retire" kind of job. I always thought that's why the rates were so high: because these women have to save enough in a few years to retire on, so they have to charge a lot.

What gives? I'd especially like to hear from women in the industry, and not just the ones who have got it right, but the ones who for whatever reason haven't saved as much as they wanted to. Why is that?

[nip]

very interesting post...I am quite a nosey person and into finance etc so I have also wondered about this.

I too have got to know some SP's very well..one has been in the biz about 5 years and she earns about $6k p/m net but doesn't have many assets to show for this - $5k savings plus a shit load of shoes!..she did spend/waste a whole lot of money on narcotics though and likes 'living' for the moment...her goal is to live well for very little effort and not to make her millions before retiring from the biz.

Another SP(abit older..like me!), I consider a friend and she has been in this biz for about 10 years and she has just paid off her condo worth about $300k...not much other savings but she was quite diciplined to atleast get her place paid off...

I think it is not a case of SP's not being able to save but if they do have any financial goals(not everyone is 'financially' thinking or diciplined) and why are they in ths business - some may have drug habits, some like buying expensive clothes and living well, some do it to pay for school and some do it to set them up reasonably(ie, buy a house etc)

[unshavencuban]

Do you wanna know what gives?
They lie at least 1/2 of them so you feel sorry for them so you can spend money on them or they get caught up in the lifestyle(booze,nice clothes and more often drugs-especially coke) or they hook up with some loser pretty boy who can't spell CAT even if you spot him the C & the A who milks her dry.

[fuji]

Do you wanna know what gives?
They lie at least 1/2 of them so you feel sorry for them so you can spend money on them

Well, for the ones who I visit as a client, sure, it's possible. I don't think so, but who knows. But I can tell you that for these two who are my friends we do not have a business relationship and I do not give them money, or spend money on them, or buy anything, they are just friends. Unlike my reputation might lead you to believe I am not even fucking them, which is too bad, because they are hot. However, the stripper is good for getting invited to parties where.... anyway, that's another story.

The loser thing... the stripper has had a bunch of boyfriends who could not spell and she no doubt blew a lot of money on shit with them, but that just seems par for the course for her, she blows money on everything, not just guys. If she didn't have a BF she would have spent it on clothes or trips or whatever.

[luv4lust]

Do you wanna know what gives?
They lie at least 1/2 of them so you feel sorry for them so you can spend money on them or they get caught up in the lifestyle(booze,nice clothes and more often drugs-especially coke) or they hook up with some loser pretty boy who can't spell CAT even if you spot him the C & the A who milks her dry.

hum i don't do drugs never buy new clothes and i don't drink how do i waste my money lol it's called life and some of us have more important things like rent food clothes for or kids to spend our money on just so you know we aren't all drunk drug addicts out to get your cash :rolleyes:

[fuji]

hum i don't do drugs never buy new clothes and i don't drink how do i waste my money lol it's called life and some of us have more important things like rent food clothes for or kids to spend our money on just so you know we aren't all drunk drug addicts out to get your cash :rolleyes:

I will say I don't know many stripers or SP's who are drunks or drug addicts. I agree that's not where it goes, at least not for the ones I know. However, I also have these normal life expenses like rent and food, and, after taxes at least, earn less than some of these women do and yet I manage to save $2k/month on top of my mortgage payment.

[bobistheowl]

Little or no reported income + large savings account + investment portfolio + condo or house + other conspicuous assets of monetary value = tax audit.

[luv4lust]

I will say I don't know many stripers or SP's who are drunks or drug addicts. I agree that's not where it goes, at least not for the ones I know. However, I also have these normal life expenses like rent and food, and, after taxes at least, earn less than some of these women do and yet I manage to save $2k/month on top of my mortgage payment.
well i'm not out to make it rich i have fun and get enough to live on so no i don't have savings

[Esco!]

Exactly what I am afraid of.
I'm sure the auditor can be....ahum......taken care of ;)

[TheIronLady]

Sometimes it is the amount of old debt you have that puts you in this line of work to begin with. And we all know when you have debt to begin with it just grows while you still have all the everyday bills to pay.

-what ever goes in the bank you must claim as income or expect to get audited...your income has to match your lifestyle. It is hard to justify driving a 80K car when you claim to make *zilch*. I think the rich lifestyle hurts allot of girls.

-there is also the quick & easy factor I hear all the time. "I will just buy this today because I will make more money tomorrow" not thinking of the long term.

There are lots of girls with good money sense and will do alright in the end but unfortunately there are to many that think of today and not long term.

-Drugs, partying and a rich lifestyle don't help.

As for me...I do alright.

[Fabulous]

Back in the days I used to spend money on stupid stuff, I used to spend it like it was going out of style. Partied and travelled alot. It was just so easy, there was nothing else to do, I'd make money, I'd go shopping.
I'd spend all the money I made that day, cause my train of thought was that I'd get it all back and some... the next day. I made $3000.00 one night and I bought a fur coat the next day. Another time I made thousands within a couple of days and my man and I would just hop on a plane and take off to the Bahamas for the rest of the week. Oh yeah paid 2 car notes monthly lol. Holt Renfrew always had a fix for me, I wouldn't even look at a pair of shoes unless they were at least $200 or $300, $20 socks for my man, a couple of Hugo Boss suits later, back to work and repeat cycle.

Sometimes when I put my mind to it, I'd manage to save $15,000.00 to $20,000.00 within a couple of months. I liked the way it looked in the shoe box and I'd keep it at home. It was like I was building a stash, lol. I'd save it and then I didn't know what to do with it. At that time it never occured to me that I should just put it away towards retirement. I didn't buy a house, cause I couldn't splain where I got the money from, so I just spent it, living large.

Nothing much has changed, the minute I get my hands on some money, it's gone to bills, eating and living well, and I am always broke.

[middleweight]

Some interesting posts here..

I agree with 2 posts - one by Unshavencuban..I recognize many well known SP's hanging out in the club district where I sometimes work...they are always hanging around loser types of guys(some of them I know quite well through the work) who are into drugs, pretending to be a 'big-shot' gangster, no money but getting a huge loan to drive a BMW etc etc..and it is true..some of them can't even spell their own names!

Also, a post by Kacy...does revenue canada have access to bank account details?..I thought that this was covered under the data privacy act or something? and I didn't know that your social insurance number etc had to be declared when opening a bank account. I have a savings account and earn some interest but how many of you actually declare this interest on your tax return? there are lots of people with lots of money in their bank accounts - why should they be audited?

[souljax33]

Also, a post by Kacy...does revenue canada have access to bank account details?..I thought that this was covered under the data privacy act or something? and I didn't know that your social insurance number etc had to be declared when opening a bank account. I have a savings account and earn some interest but how many of you actually declare this interest on your tax return? there are lots of people with lots of money in their bank accounts - why should they be audited?


I'm sure they would have access if they wanted to, they don't worry unless there are "thousands" coming in every week or something.

A lot of people "cheat" in their taxes a little bit, HEY! mr Martin also cheated! he registered his company offshore to avoid paying Canadian taxes, we all know our little "tips" to save money.

[Esco!]

HEY! mr Martin also cheated! he registered his company offshore to avoid paying Canadian taxes
Thats not cheating, thats a legal loophole

[crocket]

Put your money in a safety deposit box at the bank then. Its contents are private and confidential, and only costs a few dollars a year to rent it.

[Vancouver Femme Fatale]

And the rest pays off debts accrued before I got into this. Living in Vancouver is expensive, and a civvie job just did not pay enough that I didn't put a little bit here, and a little bit there on my credit card; not luxuries, but things like groceries and dentists, etc. etc. Of course, it eventually added up to disaster, and I'm chipping away at that now.

Also...safety is very expensive. I do not work often because I'm very careful about who I see. If I was less safety-conscious, I'd be making way more dough, but I'd be a different person...suspicious and paranoid, going to meet dodgy people.

That's not me. Thing is, I imagine some of the ladies who are willing to see more people, and take that risk may be spending/partying as stress relief for the risks they take; they may make much more weekly than I ever will, but spend like crazy. And odds are, I will not have burned out as quickly, with so much less stress, and so may be in the business for a much longer period of time; and, because of that, I *may* end up, ultimately, ahead financially.

Incidently, I plan on making the money I save for my naughty grannyhood stretch by living in a Spanish-speaking country when I hit sixty or so.

[Fuzzy Thumper]

Also, a post by Kacy...does revenue canada have access to bank account details?

The Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) has more than that. Banks are required to report various things to them (i.e. interest earned over $50, large cash transactions, "suspicious" cash transaction patterns, etc.).


..I thought that this was covered under the data privacy act or something?

Nope.


and I didn't know that your social insurance number etc had to be declared when opening a bank account.

Absolutely.


I have a savings account and earn some interest but how many of you actually declare this interest on your tax return? there are lots of people with lots of money in their bank accounts - why should they be audited?

If it's less than $50, no one will care. If you earn more than $50, your bank will tell CRA for you (by issuing you a T5 slip, which they also submit to the government). If you don't claim that, you're asking for it....

I doubt most of the ladies would be worried about being audited for interest income - it's the "lifestyle" audit that should worry them. If you're putting $10k cash into the bank every month, sooner or later the government is going to ask where that money came from. And they aren't very imaginative in the responses that they accept - especially when the tax returns don't show the same pattern....

Bank accounts aren't needed for "lifestyle" audits; but they can provide the government with both a "signal" to investigate, and a concrete list of questions (or damning evidence) that may be difficult to answer in the case that they do.

[Fuzzy Thumper]

Put your money in a safety deposit box at the bank then. Its contents are private and confidential, and only costs a few dollars a year to rent it.

...AND those few dollars are actually tax deductible! :D

[frankcastle]

I think you'll find examples of both.

Like anywhere else some save and others don't.
Some spend it wisely and others don't.

My guess it the hardest part is making that transition of making large sums of money to earning more modest amounts.

[blopar]

I agree with Frank: they are many examples of both types, just like like in other professions (eg. doctors, lawyers, etc. who are either saving tons or living well beyond their means).

Now that this thread has been raised, I have reflected on this a bit and have noted a curious correlation with most of my long-time, fave MP's, SP's and dancers---they are are all quite well situated financially with paid-off homes, nice cars, etc. They are all strong, independent women without any 'bad habits'.

It seems that I have a thing for women who are smart and mature, as well as sexy and beautiful.

[hambone]

Does anyone know for certain how much cash can be deposited into an account without triggering any suspicion? How much in a month for instance?

[fuji]

Does anyone know for certain how much cash can be deposited into an account without triggering any suspicion? How much in a month for instance?

Any transaction over $5k is guaranteed to raise suspicion. Any pattern of transactions under $5k that look like they are intentionally trying to avoid the $5k reporting limit will certainly raise eyebrows.

From a savings point of view what is more likely to raise suspicion is a large balance. Eventually the CRA will notice. Maybe not for several years, but they can audit you back several years into the past (5-10 depending), and if they audit you for one year, odds are thy will look back several previous years.

I would recommend that an SP declare at least a large portion of her income and put it in the bank. First, the business isn't illegal, and the CRA isn't going to come and lecture you on your lifestyle, and they'll keep the record secret. Second, you could just list it as "self employment income" and put down "entertainer" or something, you don't have to be specific, and CRA won't really care either, so long as you report it.

You could then save maybe half the money you reported in a proper investment account or something. You also would be able to write off all sorts of business expenses--if you rent a place to entertain clients, or your car, clothes you buy for the job, money you spend advertising, paying drivers, food while you are working, etc., you can write that all off, so taxes are going to be lower than you think.

This industry is *legal* in Canada, and there are generous deductions available for small business owners, which is what all you SP's really are, so taxes are not really the big problem you think they are. Get an accountant who is open minded and file something. Maybe not 100% of your income, but enough that you can have real savings in the bank.

Kacy, this is a lot easier than you think, you have nothing to be ashamed of about your job, and you have a great opportunity to save a lot of money if you do this right. It won't take you long to get it set up, and you'll be able to breathe freely wrt CRA, etc.

[fuji]

On an almost humourous note, but, from the govt's point of view, totally serious issue...

Any of you SP's who claim to be filing taxes properly, are you charging your clients 7% GST and remitting your GST to the govt. the way you are suppsoed to be? CRA might come along and claw back 5% of your declared income some day when they realize it was all GST eligible, which it is....

[zanner69]

Does anyone know for certain how much cash can be deposited into an account without triggering any suspicion? How much in a month for instance?

see a good tax lawyer and open an account down in the cayman islands - some nice off-shore banking going on down there !!!!

[fuji]

see a good tax lawyer and open an account down in the cayman islands - some nice off-shore banking going on down there !!!!

You have to get the money there somehow.. CRA is going to know about your wire transfers.

[zanner69]

You have to get the money there somehow.. CRA is going to know about your wire transfers.

obviously you do not know how things work??? - very easy to do!!!!

[Preferred]

Every sp or stripper that i know is driving the latest BMW or Mercedes, and living it up. They are still quite young, hopefully they will smarten up with experiences of life.

[Preferred]

Does anyone know for certain how much cash can be deposited into an account without triggering any suspicion? How much in a
month for instance?

Depends on your relationship with your bank manager.

[blopar]

Every sp or stripper that i know is driving the latest BMW or Mercedes, and living it up. They are still quite young, hopefully they will smarten up with experiences of life.

Gawd, they are crazy! A couple of hundred bucks a month wasted on upgrading a car lease from a Hyundai to a Beemer.

They should learn from all of us on Terb, who never waste a few hundred bucks a month on this habit!

[Preferred]

Who said anything about leasing? Most of them have poor credit ratings to start with. I said most.:p

[yoniluvrca]

Not to make anyone paranoid but, I wonder if revenue Canada reads this board?:D

[fuji]

obviously you do not know how things work??? - very easy to do!!!!

It used to be. CRA is playing a better game these days than a few years back. Be careful with this stuff.

[zanner69]

It used to be. CRA is playing a better game these days than a few years back. Be careful with this stuff.

it's still is easy - the law firms in the Cayman islands and the Bahams are doing extremely well - and I'll leave it at that.

[Vancouver Femme Fatale]

A really good way to find out about what are viewed as suspicious transactions is to go at it from the other direction and check out Financial Transactions and Reports Analysis Centre of Canada info like;

http://www.fintrac.gc.ca/publications/guide/Guide2/2s4_e.asp#441

While mostly targeted at money laundering and suspected terrorist funding, it will tell you what kinds of transactions or behaviours attract attention and trigger reporting.

[WhaWhaWha]

First, the business isn't illegal, and the CRA isn't going to come and lecture you on your lifestyle, and they'll keep the record secret. Second, you could just list it as "self employment income" and put down "entertainer" or something, you don't have to be specific, and CRA won't really care either, so long as you report it.

This industry is *legal* in Canada, and there are generous deductions available for small business owners, which is what all you SP's really are, so taxes are not really the big problem you think they are. Get an accountant who is open minded and file something. Maybe not 100% of your income, but enough that you can have real savings in the bank.

It's true the CRA won't lecture you about your career or lifestyle. There are all sorts of other agencies waiting in the wings to do that to the more forthcoming open honest sex workers. The ones that make themselves easy to find because of their honesty. Aren't sex trade workers required to obtain special licenses and certifications, or is that just MPAs? Aren't they also required to cooperate with scheduled health screenings whether they like it or not? Aren't their tax returns scrutinized to the bone due to the nature of untraceable cash transactions? Once the police are made aware, don't a lot of known sex workers suddenly find themselves the recipients of undue harassment, out of the blue, for "suspicion" of other illegal activities like drug trafficking? Aren't they impeded from having live-in partners because the police periodically pick up their spouses for living off the avails? And heaven help you if you have children present in your premises (even if it's exclusively outside of business hours). A lot of frivolous charges and harrassment goes on. The SPs might win their court cases, but the financial and emotional strain of living in the courthouse takes it's toll. The laws are not quite as enabling and liberal as you might think. Many workers are driven to concealing their trade. And living in a cash based, bankless world is expensive. No investments. No credit cards. No financing. Everything paid for in cash -- even large ticket items. Just some of the things I've been told by workers who I'm assuming would prefer to remain nameless.

[nip]

wise words from Alexa.

I know some SP's have friends who own small businesses so when they have to enter 'real' employment or get a reference for a condo lease etc then those references provide a 'work history' out of nothing.

However, it won't give you a history for CRA..So Alexa's advice is great...even if you only officially declare half and write off business expenses you shouldn't be paying that much tax(unless you earn shit loads)..It would raise CRA's suspicions if (for example) the following happened:

An SP has been 'working' for 5/6 years(ie, working as an SP is her full time job) and declaring no income tax/history..then she gets a 'proper' job and has to start filing tax returns etc...CRA may look at the age etc and wonder why nothing has been filed for 5/6 years...and they aren't stupid enough to believe you lived off a rich boyfriend who isn't around anymore...believe me, myself and friends of mine have been investigated in the past (and cleared) and boy can these people investigate when they want to.

[fuji]

It's true the CRA won't lecture you about your career or lifestyle. There are all sorts of other agencies waiting in the wings to do that to the more forthcoming open honest sex workers.....

Do you know that for a fact or are you speculating? It is my understanding that it is illegal for CRA to turn over anything about you to any other govt. agency without a court orderering them to do so. I do not think the CRA automatically turns anything over to the police under any circumstance other than possibly prosecution or investigation of tax evasion.

I also don't think CRA has time to audit in detail anyone who has mostly cash transactions. You might have a better chance than someone with a non-cash business, but there are LOTS of people with cash businesses out there, and simply not that many CRA auditors.

Further, if you do all of this properly, you really have nothing to fear from an audit anyway. That's the whole idea of reporting it as a business--you are clean.

Finally, when you file a small business return there is NOWHERE on the return that you would write "prostitution" there! Unless you would actually audited they would never actually inquire into the nature of the business, and even if you were audited, they might not!! So it is not like disclosing the income means you are disclosing exactly how you earned it. For any simple fill-in-the-blank that you might have to put something, just put, "services to clients" or "consulting" or "entertaining".

Even if you were more blunt than you need to be and wrote in "escort" I don't think you would be audited, but since you don't even need to write that, what's the problem?

[domintoronto]

After buying two homes in Toronto, a place in Miami and a 2004car (not the newest fanciest on the block) paid for in full(no morgtages, and I rent 2 of the places out seasonally), savings, a legit job and school. Some of us can and DO do it! I do not do drugs of any sort, drink, smoke ciggs nor do I party lol Perhaps some view it as boring, I see it as smart. I have everything I want that makes me happy so I don't seek it out in silly things like shoes, purses and high end label. I think when ladies do it for that it's tacky and quite sad to say the least. We all like nice things but the things I like and prefer are a roof over my head, my savings (mutual funds, rsp, and stocks) and the essentials......everything else is simply the icing on the cake.

I can honestly say I won't be in this business long, except that I enjoy it so much....once the thrill is gone I will be too as this is something I CHOOSE to do, not HAVE to do.


my 2 cents

[Vancouver Femme Fatale]

Well said, ladies!

I file a return, deduct my expenses and declare myself as a social escort. Why? Because living in paranoia is just obnoxious, and I also go to the doctor, library, public events, am willing to call cops if I need them, and loads of other things that are supported by tax dollars. And, just as importantly, in my case, why willingly give anybody ammunition? I consider myself very lucky to be able to be open about what I do; most ladies cannot because of family or employment issues.

Canada is a great country, and I'm not a parasite. Believe it or not, as noted, not all of us are in it for a coked-addled Manolo Blahnik-shod free ride.:)

[RTRD]

I have sat down with several ladies and gone through their earnings and expenses with them, in detail, to help them target where their problems are. The sad thing is that most ladies (that I know anyway), blow everything on expenses. Everyone has a different vice, be it vodka, or shoes, or travel, or a "boyfriend", or "little things" that add up. Only a very, very few that I know - I can count them on one hand - put away money towards a home, a car, or savings. And even then - those ones with a modicum of discipline - they really should be doing much better than they are. In all my experience I have only met one lady who had a plan, and stuck to it.

...is pretty much what I'd expect.

I've said it before at different times and in different ways, but I think it would take a fairly "unique" person to be a sex worker (stripper, MPA, SP, others). And it is hard for me to imagine such a person having the self discipline to save significant sums of money (else they probably would have acquired the skills necessary to find a different way to make in the first place).

I am sure some people will call me judgemental, but your emperical edvidence seems to back my line of thinking up...

[keybitz]

imho i'd say that 10% have good business sense and maintain the necessary disciplines to succeed in attaining their goals....from that 10% i'd estimate that 8% "retire" when they intend to, with the remaining 2% continuing a successful and profitable venture...





QUOTE=MLAM]...is pretty much what I'd expect.

I've said it before at different times and in different ways, but I think it would take a fairly "unique" person to be a sex worker (stripper, MPA, SP, others). And it is hard for me to imagine such a person having the self discipline to save significant sums of money (else they probably would have acquired the skills necessary to find a different way to make in the first place).

I am sure some people will call me judgemental, but your emperical edvidence seems to back my line of thinking up...[/QUOTE]

[Fuzzy Thumper]

It is my understanding that it is illegal for CRA to turn over anything about you to any other govt. agency without a court orderering them to do so.

Nope. Well, yes, if there is a Court order, they have to comply... but they aren't restricted to that. Section 8(2)d of the Privacy Act says that they may release information to the Attorney General of Canada for use in legal proceedings involving the Crown in right of Canada or the Government of Canada. Section 8(2)e allows them to give the information to law enforcement if they ask and describe why (without court order).


I do not think the CRA automatically turns anything over to the police under any circumstance other than possibly prosecution or investigation of tax evasion.

It's not automatic - but it isn't illegal. That's just TV myth. Things you tell CRA are not "priviledged"! They CAN be used against you, if there is sufficient reason to do so. Or, more importantly, if you give them reason to WANT to....


I also don't think CRA has time to audit in detail anyone who has mostly cash transactions. You might have a better chance than someone with a non-cash business, but there are LOTS of people with cash businesses out there, and simply not that many CRA auditors.

Huh? That's exactly who they target for audit. Because that's where most of the "funny business" goes on.

If your business is highly automated and full of paper trails, there isn't much to actually audit....


Further, if you do all of this properly, you really have nothing to fear from an audit anyway. That's the whole idea of reporting it as a business--you are clean.

Finally, when you file a small business return there is NOWHERE on the return that you would write "prostitution" there! Unless you would actually audited they would never actually inquire into the nature of the business, and even if you were audited, they might not!! So it is not like disclosing the income means you are disclosing exactly how you earned it. For any simple fill-in-the-blank that you might have to put something, just put, "services to clients" or "consulting" or "entertaining".

Even if you were more blunt than you need to be and wrote in "escort" I don't think you would be audited, but since you don't even need to write that, what's the problem?

True. But you don't submit receipts either. The foundation of our tax system is based on self-assessment, and they "trust" you... until you give them reason not to.

If you do get audited (and most businesses do, sooner or later), they are VERY much interested in EXACTLY how you make your money. The reason for this is that they need to know this to assess if any of your deductions are "reasonably required" for having earned that income. Simply stating "Consulting" or "Entertaining" will no longer suffice.

I'm not suggesting that they hide what they do, or not declare income; in fact, I agree with most of what you say. I just think it's important to add the the following:

1. CRA is the Government, and "Privilege" is a myth. Anything you tell them, you should be willing to let the Attorney General or the local police know. Exercise discretion in what you say.
2. Get qualified professional help for your taxes (see Ms. Blue's post/request for ideas)
3. In addition to being careful to what you say, be careful not to create "paper trails" that suggest illegal activities (e.g. trying to deduct condom costs, advertising expenses, and home expenses for entertaining clients might put you on the wrong side of "solicitation" or "bawdy house" charges). It MAY not ever amount to much, but it isn't worth the possiblity.
4. Claim your income, and deduct VALID expenses, but be reasonable (your professional help will guide you here, but a general rule would be to ask yourself if you would believe someone could acually live on the net income that you are claiming)... if you get too aggressive, or try and jerk CRA around, they will respond in kind. And they are much better at it than you can ever be.
5. Never (ever) lie.

[Dani]

Nope. Well, yes, if there is a Court order, they have to comply... but they aren't restricted to that. Section 8(2)d of the Privacy Act says that they may release information to the Attorney General of Canada for use in legal proceedings involving the Crown in right of Canada or the Government of Canada. Section 8(2)e allows them to give the information to law enforcement if they ask and describe why (without court order).



It's not automatic - but it isn't illegal. That's just TV myth. Things you tell CRA are not "priviledged"! They CAN be used against you, if there is sufficient reason to do so. Or, more importantly, if you give them reason to WANT to....



Huh? That's exactly who they target for audit. Because that's where most of the "funny business" goes on.

If your business is highly automated and full of paper trails, there isn't much to actually audit....



True. But you don't submit receipts either. The foundation of our tax system is based on self-assessment, and they "trust" you... until you give them reason not to.

If you do get audited (and most businesses do, sooner or later), they are VERY much interested in EXACTLY how you make your money. The reason for this is that they need to know this to assess if any of your deductions are "reasonably required" for having earned that income. Simply stating "Consulting" or "Entertaining" will no longer suffice.

I'm not suggesting that they hide what they do, or not declare income; in fact, I agree with most of what you say. I just think it's important to add the the following:

1. CRA is the Government, and "Privilege" is a myth. Anything you tell them, you should be willing to let the Attorney General or the local police know. Exercise discretion in what you say.
2. Get qualified professional help for your taxes (see Ms. Blue's post/request for ideas)
3. In addition to being careful to what you say, be careful not to create "paper trails" that suggest illegal activities (e.g. trying to deduct condom costs, advertising expenses, and home expenses for entertaining clients might put you on the wrong side of "solicitation" or "bawdy house" charges). It MAY not ever amount to much, but it isn't worth the possiblity.
4. Claim your income, and deduct VALID expenses, but be reasonable (your professional help will guide you here, but a general rule would be to ask yourself if you would believe someone could acually live on the net income that you are claiming)... if you get too aggressive, or try and jerk CRA around, they will respond in kind. And they are much better at it than you can ever be.
5. Never (ever) lie.


I bought a toaster, and wow does it ever brown both sides..

Dani

[drlove]

...is pretty much what I'd expect.

I've said it before at different times and in different ways, but I think it would take a fairly "unique" person to be a sex worker (stripper, MPA, SP, others). And it is hard for me to imagine such a person having the self discipline to save significant sums of money (else they probably would have acquired the skills necessary to find a different way to make in the first place).

I am sure some people will call me judgemental, but your emperical edvidence seems to back my line of thinking up...

I don't believe that's true in all cases. For instance, I know an SP who has a degree in commerce, so I'm sure she knows that importance of saving and investing. If she uses her earnings as an SP to her advantage, she will be well off regardless. Then, when she enters the corporate world, she can be assured of making a competetive civillian salary as well.

[Marla]

have assets, you'd be crazy not to be paying taxes. You just cant be stupid about it.

[Fuzzy Thumper]

I bought a toaster, and wow does it ever brown both sides..

Dani

If you are cleverly suggesting that I'm arguing both sides, I absolutely am. But since you are obviously missing the point, let me try once more for you, using your "toast" analogy. You want a nice, peaceful breakfast? It's probably much better to try and reach just a little colour on both sides of your toast, than it is to go about burning the heck out of one or the other with a blowtorch.

That's my point. Lots of folks here saying lots of stuff that could be dangerous for the poor ladies who lack your obvious abilities in the area of "staying out of trouble" - on one side, evading taxes is the most dangerous, in my opinion; but, on the other side, aggressive filings and openly confessing crimes to the Government aren't that much better.

Still don’t get it? Perhaps another analogy you might understand... the situation is very much like the tenuous balance between massage parlours and local law enforcement. Technically, what happens in massage parlours could be seen as... well, let's just say "dubious". If you play nice, use a little discretion, and don't cause problems - it is tolerated. If, however, you decide to ignore the regulators completely... or, worse, if you start flaunting things, calling them on technicalities, or just pissing them off in general (remember they are people, too), they have considerable latitude to make your life difficult.

Exactly the same is true with CRA - only THEIR capacity for creating problems for you is appreciably higher. So, you can believe (as a lot are suggesting) that "jousting windmills" on either side is a good idea when dealing with them, or you can be a little more pragmatic (like others are advising). I'm suggesting the latter, but feel free to try any approach you like.

Seeing as I have no real interest in what further revelations your coffee maker or dishwasher might next offer you, I will bid you Good Day, Madame.


P.S. I think I'm beginning to understand the sudden demise of IT. Shame, really... I used to like that place.

[Dani]

Fuzzy you have my complete agreement: after all Big Al Capone would not have ended up where he did were it not for tax evasion.
Now as for my coffee maker it has a serious bias towards good but somewhat bland therefore taking the safe route.
My dishwasher kinda cleans everything so that there is nothing"dirty" left and that my friend is a good thing.NO???

IT was a great place and yes I miss it too but life goes on, as they say, and to dwell on the past will only affect my thoughts on the future.

I have no further revelations as I bid you "good morrow sir"

The expense of spirit in a waste of shame
Is lust in action; and till action, lust
Is perjured, murderous, bloody, full of blame,
Savage, extreme, rude, cruel, not to trust,
Enjoy'd no sooner but despised straight,
Past reason hunted, and no sooner had
Past reason hated, as a swallow'd bait
On purpose laid to make the taker mad;
Mad in pursuit and in possession so;
Had, having, and in quest to have, extreme;
A bliss in proof, and proved, a very woe;
Before, a joy proposed; behind, a dream.
All this the world well knows; yet none knows well
To shun the heaven that leads men to this hell.

[Doctor Zoidburg]

A dancer that I know use to make $600 on a slow night and as much as !$1500 on a good night. Has a house with about $120,000 equity in it, but not much more. The reason why she is broke all the time is that she takes taxis everywhere she goes. She buys everything she sees, and she eats out as often as possible. When she eats in, it is prepared foods or take out. She has a house keeper and another girl to wash her clothes for her. Thats why thaey are always broke.

[Amandalynn]

You ask if us ladies save are money, what about you, what's your story?

[drlove]

I save mine - as much as possible.

[canaille]

Thats not cheating, thats a legal loophole

No that's called tax evasion. The CRA has set its sights on UBS and tax evaders will be lined up one by one with new boyfriends in jail. Cash-strapped governments with massive deficits will be heavily targeting offshore accounts. A legal loophole is to actually move offshore and become non-resident. It ain't so bad in the Bahamas.

[Rockslinger]

A legal loophole is to actually move offshore and become non-resident.

Beware of the "Departure Tax". Happened to a co-worker when he was transferred to the U.S.

[fromPittsburgh]

It's not too difficult to put together... read the millionaire next door for an explanation. I make over $160k /yr and have a difficult time affording daily expenses... because of my occupation, I am expected to look a certain way, live in a certain neighbourhood, attend functions, buy certain clothes, cars, etc... I am trying to change, but losing the battle. I have been trying to become more frugal for over 10 years. ain't working out very well, though.

My guess, is that I make more $$ than the average top dancer or top escort in the gta... just a quick guess as I have nothing to compare it too. So, I understand how there will be many varying responses in how and if or not escorts, SPs, dancers, MPAs ever get to save money or not.

I feel it is best to explain my situation with real figures:

my financial snapshot:

Annual Expenses
Income Tax- $71,360
Mortgage- $27,090
Condo Fees- $9,346
Property Tax- $5,996
Utilities, Cable, Phone- $3,340
Home, Car Insurance- $3,884
Pet Expenses- $940
Entertainment- $7,200
Clothing- $7,600
Travel- $2,400
Hobbies- $2,000
Charity, gifts- $1,200
Professional, business costs- $2,200
Miscellaneous- $5,000
*Miscellaneous for adult hobby- $15,000
General savings- $28,800

Assets
Condo- $550,000
RRSP- $0 (new to Canada, will start saving this year)
Pension- $38,000
TFSA- $0 (will start this year)
Non-registered stocks- $19,334

Liabilities
Mortgage- $373,852

net worth $233,482

btw- it was alot more easy to save money while living in Pittsburgh, so I was able to save fairly well up until last year. Though, I don't know how all you Canucks do it? Help me out! The biggest difference was going from paying under $27k in income tax to IRS to paying over twice that to CRA!

[Rockslinger]

I make over $160k /yr and have a difficult time affording daily expenses!

One of the guys in my company grosses over $1million a year but is always broke. Why? He has to keep up appearances. Big house. A trophy spendthrift wife. 3 big cars. 4 kids attending U.S. universities, each with their own car. Plus, he spends over $100,000 a year on his mistress (condo, car, fur coats, etc.).

I started a thread about how SP's got their start in this business about a year or so ago. One SP said she was homeless so decided to get into this business to make money. Paid off all her debts. Then with the help of a nice client bought an agency which is now one of the largest in the GTA. If you can find that thread, you will also find out who is this lady.

BTW I think almost everybody is broke. I put some items up for sale on CL. 98% of the enqueries came from people who had no money but lots of time to call people like me trying to sell some stuff for money.

[Dragon.i]

The yearly expenses do look high. But did you take into account your wife/gf's contributions (if any). If so, then, it's not so bad.
However, if that is one person's income AND expenses. YOu are definitely living beyond your means.

[Dragon.i]

To Dani,

Please remove that ugly wench in that picture.

[hinz]

To Dani,

Please remove that ugly wench in that picture.

You know that "ugly wench" in that picture is Dani herself, do you? :eek:

BTW, WRT SP/MPA saving money, many of them are reminiscent of top pro athletes who got carried away of sudden big inflows of cash in early 20s, only to be in financial distress within 25 years once their career is long gone due to age, injury, years of irresponsible spending and faulty money management.

Having said that, not all SP and MPA behave that way but given the epidemic on instant gratification in all walks of life, it only make the situation worse.

[hinz]

You ask if us ladies save are money, what about you, what's your story?

It is not easy to answer.

You will not have any moral authority to lecture the way SP or MPA save her money if you are fiscally irresponsible just like her.

OTOH, you will be on her target if she discovers you save, accumulate significant wealth, have minimal, even no debts and still single.

BTW, such dilemma is equally applicable to dating civilian women.:rolleyes:

[fromPittsburgh]

The yearly expenses do look high. But did you take into account your wife/gf's contributions (if any). If so, then, it's not so bad.
However, if that is one person's income AND expenses. YOu are definitely living beyond your means.

nope. it is just me that contributes currently. I may be living beyond my means, but how come I make alot more than the average household yet struggle with average expenses???

which do you think are beyond my means... everything seems average too me, ie, my mortgage payment is under $1400/mth and I make over $160k/yr. yet, all the figures are there, again:

Annual Expenses
Income Tax- $71,360
Mortgage- $27,090
Condo Fees- $9,346
Property Tax- $5,996
Utilities, Cable, Phone- $3,340
Home, Car Insurance- $3,884
Pet Expenses- $940
Entertainment- $7,200
Clothing- $7,600
Travel- $2,400
Hobbies- $2,000
Charity, gifts- $1,200
Professional, business costs- $2,200
Miscellaneous- $5,000
*Miscellaneous for adult hobby- $15,000
General savings- $28,800

Assets
Condo- $550,000
RRSP- $0 (new to Canada, will start saving this year)
Pension- $38,000
TFSA- $0 (will start this year)
Non-registered stocks- $19,334

Liabilities
Mortgage- $373,852

net worth $233,482

*** when I lived in the USA, I was able to save alot easier, things were less expensive, definitely lower house costs, car costs, food and TAXES... but, is that what it means to be Canadian? to live with so much less???

[Rockslinger]

when I lived in the USA, I was able to save alot easier, things were less expensive, definitely lower house costs, car costs, food and TAXES...

The U.S. benefits from economy of scale because of its large population base (310 million legal and 70 million illegal). However, your portion of the U.S. national debt is much higher.

[JaguarTO]

Whether you are an sp or an investment banker saving money is not about what you make it is about what you spend. I have observed SP's that treat it as a business, have an accountant, pay taxes and accrue assets ... few and far between; however, they are the smart ones that realize they can't turn 29 forever.

[escortsxxx]

I agree that if you go tax free your screwed. To have assest without getting in troble you have to delcare you income as something . . or some portion. Unless of course you buy stuff off shore in cash. But most of the girls seem to start young, many are really bright, but like 99% of people have no idea about investing and saving and such. I ve seen other high income earners have the same problem - think of Tyson who in his film said "30million, i Lost it somewhere but who cares, its just petty cash" -that's a paraphrase but he was being serious.

[Adrienne Morgan]

In the past I have never saved/spent my money well. When I turned 18 and moved to Canada they just *gave* me a credit card. I had a PT retail job, was in school, and had $1500 at my disposal.... I can't even tell you what I spent that money on, but it was gone about 2 weeks later. Things went way downhill from there.

But this is year 2000 and SHINE for me. I have begun an organized path towards a better, financially-stable life. I will have all my debts paid off by the year's end + some savings. * Contributions are much appreciated *

Due to my poor financial track record, I will have to spend the next few years building up my credit before I can purchase a condo. Three years from now, I hope to be able to do so. At the same time I would like to start my first business. I haven't quite figured out which business it will be, but my goal is to own multiple small business by the time I am 30 (Tanning salon, Hair salon, Day spa, High-end Retail Boutique, and eventually my own Fashion line... and who knows what else!) I will start with one small business and just grow from there. I will open a second business the same year as my first, then two more the next year.. etc.
I'm a big dreamer (Pisces) but am now learning to be more practical, organized and determined. Im lucky to be able use escorting as a platform for everything else that I can and will achieve in my life.

I'm going to start looking for an accountant & financial advisor this summer to help get me better planned & prepared (H&R Block will suffice this year since I have a "real job" right now).

[Rockslinger]

(Tanning salon, Hair salon, Day spa, High-end Retail Boutique,

These businesses require high initial capital and ongoing overhead. One of my dancer friends went into interior decorating and event planning. All she needs are 2 years at a college, a cellphone and a car. Very little capital outlay and no infrastructure costs. BTW I think tanning salons will be dead in the water soon.

[Adrienne Morgan]

These businesses require high initial capital and ongoing overhead. One of my dancer friends went into interior decorating and event planning. All she needs are 2 years at a college, a cellphone and a car. Very little capital outlay and no infrastructure costs. BTW I think tanning salons will be dead in the water soon.


Maybe... but why not have my hand in the cookie jar?? I don't mind getting just a little income from each business. These are just rough ideas, of course I'll have to weigh all the pros and cons and work out the costs. I've also considered event planning & flower shop. Also, a high-end closet design company as a family business since my brother is into craftmanship & trades. Its all a big, rough plan right now. I still have minimum three years to figure it all out. lol.

[Rockslinger]

a family business

Be careful who you partner with. My dancer friend partnered with 3 other friends and they bought a stupid cottage near Wasaga Beach. Her share of the loss was $20,000.

Here is a lesson from Warren Buffet. When he first started his investment business, he partnered with his sister. He said he spent more time MANAGING his sister than he did managing his investments, so he fired her and never regreted it.

[hinz]

Be careful who you partner with. My dancer friend partnered with 3 other friends and they bought a stupid cottage near Wasaga Beach. Her share of the loss was $20,000.

IMHO buying a cottage is not my cup of tea.

It reminds me of upkeeping a high maintenance girlfriend, probably mistress/trophy type wannabe in real world.


Here is a lesson from Warren Buffet.....

I am shocked the Oracle of the Omaha is a big fan at those Chinese all you can eat establishment!!

BTW, if I could recall, he once said right after the Lehman Brothers Collapse, he felt liked an oversexed teenage boy at the whore house to describe his joy to pick up truckload of "wide-moat" blue chip companies, hand over fist. :)

Yep, that beats spending time with your favorite SP/MPA hands down but my Jr had different idea......

[odie999]

I'm just curious why you care whether she saves or not.

If you are a regular, then out of self interest I would think you want your favourite girls to NOT save so they have to keep working.

Also if they're desperate for money it'll be easier for you to strike deals. But you don't want her so desperate that she'll take all kinds of risks that put you in a risky situation .

(this isn't the way I think, just knocking around the notion of self interest with morals disconnected in this situation)

more than she already does, IOW risks that for her that could come back at you are not standard in this business

more than you already are, or IOW risks for you that're not standard in this business

[Rockslinger]

It reminds me of upkeeping a high maintenance girlfriend, probably mistress/trophy type wannabe in real world.

One of my friends, who doesn't work because he is living off his inheritance, has a GF who also doesn't work (and not because she has money). They both don't work. He pays for everything. Now the nutty GF wants to open her own business with HIS MONEY!

[hinz]

One of my friends, who doesn't work because he is living off his inheritance, has a GF who also doesn't work (and not because she has money). They both don't work. He pays for everything. Now the nutty GF wants to open her own business with HIS MONEY!

Hmm...sounds like your friend did not conduct a throughout background/criminal check on this lady before he got his inheritance. :rolleyes:

Don't want to be mean but it looks like he has a gold digger on the hook.

[Rockslinger]

Don't want to be mean but it looks like he has a gold digger on the hook.

Yes, but my friend is not all dumb. He absolutely refuses to let his GF move into his house (which he bought for a song when his aunt went to the nursing home). Did you know a live in GF "acquires" spousal rights to your house and money after 2 years of co-habitation?

[hinz]

Did you know a live in GF "acquires" spousal rights to your house and money after 2 years of co-habitation?

Yep....:rolleyes:

[Dragon.i]

You know that "ugly wench" in that picture is Dani herself, do you? :eek:

BTW, WRT SP/MPA saving money, many of them are reminiscent of top pro athletes who got carried away of sudden big inflows of cash in early 20s, only to be in financial distress within 25 years once their career is long gone due to age, injury, years of irresponsible spending and faulty money management.

Having said that, not all SP and MPA behave that way but given the epidemic on instant gratification in all walks of life, it only make the situation worse.

...and you might say that "instant gratficiation" is not gender specific either.

Is that really "Dani" or a photoshop of Arnold Swazenneger's bod, face of....Conan the Barbarian, with blonde wig; and tits of those girls in Brass Rail/Zanibar.

[jetfuel]

Easy come and easy go I would assume is the motto of these ladies. Personally, I think it is a sad story because the age thing catches up with them quickly and the potential to make money is diminished. The numbers they must earn is staggering!!!

[Rockslinger]

Easy come and easy go

This reminds me of the story (which may or may not be true) of hockey great Harvey "Busher" Jackson. It was rumoured that in retirement he was seen outside Maple Leaf Garden asking for spare change from passerbys.

[toguy5252]

I sure hope they do. I have met a number of young women who have impressed me not only with their beauty but with their intelligence. I really do hope that they see this as an opportunity to pay for school or whatever and that it is a step along the way rather than the destination or career. Who knows whether they are telling me the truth but most seem to be in school or taking courses or whatever. Then again i believe them when they tell me that I look young and that i am great looking.

[jetfuel]

It is funny how they all use the excuse that they are "in" school and dancing to pay there tuition. Next thing you know school is put on hold and the easy money is just too good to give up. I have dated a few of these girls but it is just not for me. It is called Adult entertainment for a reason.

[boy1der4u]

Put your money in a safety deposit box at the bank then. Its contents are private and confidential, and only costs a few dollars a year to rent it.

That my friend is BULLSHIT !!! You have to give your Social Insurance # to get a box, and not IF, but WHEN you are audited, the government does a bank account search on you, and guess what, up pops your SAFTEY DEPOSIT BOX, with your money all nice and safe for them to take.....

[Tokyo Heights]

According to my knowledge just 10~15% SP's saves their monies, rest of them just spend like crazy girls, on un-necessary shopping, some of them support their siblings, some support their good for nothing pimps whom they address as their B/F's & some spend all their monies on liquor, & drugs
& in the end have nothing to support them when they retire! Most of them have very bad credit history's that no one is even ready to give them a credit card with $ 500 credit limit, sad and unfortunate that most of our SP's have no sense of Financial Management in their lives, & some girls live their lives in just illusions only.

[Emm]

Since I have started I have saved a HUGE portion of my money.

Last month I opened a legitimate business in order to avoid tax issues in the future. Of course the lovely thing is you don't have to claim EVERYTHING.

I would say that it is completely possible to save 100-200k a year for the average girl.

Maybe theyre just tricking you guys saying they are broke? :P

[luv4lust]

ya thats it lol ~~shakes head~~

maybe i just need to see more than one guy or raise my rates

[toguy5252]

Yep....:rolleyes:

That is not correct. Although a common law spouse will acquire certain rights an interest in your house will not be one of them.

[Rockslinger]

Maybe theyre just tricking you guys saying they are broke?

Yup, never admit to a customer that you are rich. Got to win their sympathy and compassion. Easier to charm more money out of them when they are sympathic.

[koxinga]

Yup, never admit to a customer that you are rich. Got to win their sympathy and compassion. Easier to charm more money out of them when they are sympathic.


Maybe theyre just tricking you guys saying they are broke? :P

hmmm then i guess my dearest emm you just lost out... :P of course being such a free-spirit emm doesnt really mind

spoke to another girl and she tells me she has 2 businesses. then there's another one into real estate. gotta say quite ambitious!

[Emm]

It's always amusing to see people claim that they know what 'most sps' are thinking or doing at any given time. I doubt any one person knows the 'financial sense' of 60-90% of SPs in this city (which, equates to "most").

I'll second that. I like to think I'm quite financially savvy, thank you very much =)

[Dougal Short]

I was just thinking that if I was an SP I don't think I would be disclosing the fact that I saved $100K+ of "tax free" earnings.... Having just been through a tax audit concerning (legitimate) business expenses, I don't think that RevCan would look upon these savings as "tax free". You ladies might be wise to set aside about half of your savings with the expectation of loosing it sooner or later!

[djk]

Maybe theyre just tricking you guys saying they are broke? :P

Totally agree.

As they say - a fool and his money will soon be parted.

[hinz]

Maybe they're just tricking you guys saying they are broke?

Haha...that's the first thing I knew from the get go before starting this hobby ;)

BTW, I am surprised you haven't mentioned they use tricks like they say they love you, even though not enough to give you true contact info, or claim being single moms, i.e. having kids to feed at home to get more tips from the hobbyists.

[turbin]

There is always a goal in saving money in life... Some are for retirement and most are for family or next generation so to speak.

For some that are single, greed = money.. They are not satisfy with their way of life and will try to make more to compensate for their happiness... Some ended up borrowing... Getting equity out of their home.. At the end of the day, they are acting as a slave for money.

For those with family... Young ones... Elderly parents that they have to look after will try to save and build their estate. I.e. They gotta think about "what will happen to my family if I die today"? If a sp is in such situation... I don't think they will live a lavish lifestyle and would try to save every penny they earn.

I think a life insurance would definitely make sense to ease these type of worries and will be a good form of estate creation. However, they would have to disclose their true occupation and might ended up with a higher premium based on the high risk nature of the job.

[scarlet6969]

i personally save a handsome sum of money each month from my job however i work hard and i know i cant do this forever! so i make the most i can then retire happily!

[turbin]

I wondered how inflation would affect the sp rates? It seems like the rate have been keeping quite steady if not going higher.

I think the hh incall rates for agency were 120 few years back and recently 140, and some charges 160.. I think it is growing at a faster rate than money!!

[Tiffany_69]

Well if you seen my portfolio of real estate and some Gics, Bonds, a mutual getting me shit right now. Cash and some other things not really assets sport car, truck boat jewelry.

Long and short probably why dating for me in personal life is hard now. My net 2 or 3 times theirs. at 30 yrs of age i am on track to be able to what ever I please at 40 45.

Sadly though being in biz 10 yrs now and knowing many girls not too many come close to what I have.

[hinz]

Well if you seen my portfolio of real estate and some Gics, Bonds, a mutual getting me shit right now. Cash and some other things not really assets sport car, truck boat jewelry.

Sounds prudent since this job nature is similar to Equities when it comes to volatility, security and risks. Always better to have super sized cash flows or liquid capital ready for rainy days.

WRT "mutual", I suspect you are talking about actively managed mutual funds. If that's the case, stay away, redeem everything asap so long there's no DSC fees and invest the proceeds over time in index funds or ETFs based on your risk profile.

The MER and trailer fees on actively managed mutual funds are slowly eating away the performance and that's assume the fund manager pick the right stocks, something that is not certain.


Long and short probably why dating for me in personal life is hard now. My net 2 or 3 times theirs. at 30 yrs of age i am on track to be able to what ever I please at 40 45.

Hmm....in addition to subtly showing your net worth here when you explain why you remain single, is it possible that being a pro for so long makes you trust no men?


Sadly though being in biz 10 yrs now and knowing many girls not too many come close to what I have.

Well Duh!

[Rockslinger]

Long and short probably why dating for me in personal life is hard now.

Boyfriends (and girlfriends) come and go but your net worth is your own. I have a friend who has the same "problem" as you. He inherited money in his 30's when his dad passed. He then bought his aunt's house for a song when she went to the nursing home. Human life being what it is, his next inheritances will be from his grandmother and mother. He refused to let his former girlfirend who didn't work to move into his house.

[Rockslinger]

Sadly though being in biz 10 yrs now and knowing many girls not too many come close to what I have.

Too many boyfriends, fast cars, alcohol, weed, bad investment advice, etc. Reminds me of the story of Maple Leaf hockey great Harvey "Busher" Jackson. In retirement, it was rumoured that he was seen outside Maple Leaf Garden begging for spare change.

[Rockslinger]

I would say that it is completely possible to save 100-200k a year for the average girl.
Maybe theyre just tricking you guys saying they are broke?

I just knew it. Our Lisa of Toronto (and sometimes Jamaica) is pulling our legs pleading poverty.

Old Irish proverb: "Never trust an escort pleading poverty."

[AlannaJohnson]

This is an awesome thread; haven't even read it all. They should make it sticky! :)

I may reply in more detail later.

Thanks to all who contributed good advice & comments.

[jetfuel]

Would you save money, if you knew you can walk into a SC and make money for wearing your underwear.!!! I understand the job is hard, but we have all seen girls make quick money in a ridiculous amount of time. I go to a club, not one of the popular ones and I am amazed at what I see. Average girls making money dancing for some old geezer, then an hour goes by and they come out of the back room.
My point is, we are ALL thinking like men - with some rational.
Put yourself in there position, men fill up a club to see naked girls. I am sure alot of these young girls think that they will find a rich boyfriend at a certain point, I mean lately alot of girls seeming to be "interviewing" me.

[Emm]

The only problem with this plan Emm are those silly money laundering charges you might face by throwing your illegal earnings into to a legitimate business. If you really want to cover yourself simply report the illegal earnings as other income --- the amount you pick is up to you, of course subject to any CRA audit and estimate of your true earnings.

http://www.fintrac.gc.ca/fintrac-canafe/definitions/money-argent-eng.asp



kf1

The earnings are not illegal...

Im not laundering money, I am claiming my income.

Prostitution is legal in Canada as long as it is done behind closed doors.

[Emm]

Actually you should go talk to a lawyer ---- you are claiming your income through a business which I assumed from your post is a corporation. The mere fact that sex between individuals behind close doors is legal, it doesn't mean that all the steps you took to get to that location is, which means that transferring personal income derived from an illegal act to a Corporation is in fact money laundering --- you should read the link I provided.


kf1

No it is not incorperated, it is a sole proprietorship

The steps to get to that location are done over the phone which is also private. Public solicitation is illegal.

My business is registerd as escort services.

I am not hiding anything.

Anyway I will be claiming it as other income now, makes things alot easier.

[splooge]

my wife is a dancer. when I met her she made over $160k/yr... since I have become a 'provider' for her, she only works 2-3 nights per week and I have no idea what she makes... I think about $200/night. quite a decrease, but she's nearing the ending of her career and I expect she'll move onto something different in about a year or two. Perhaps escorting, but probably something mainstream. She has some business acumen. She owns two rental properties (mortgage free) and has about $70k cash saved up. So, I'm guessing a networth of around $900k. I think her personal net worth is pretty even with my own ($750k)... maybe hers is slightly more, but I'm more of a spender/high earner... she's a saver. I have debt. She hates debt and has none currently.

I'm most certain that every scenario is different.

Now, my fav dancer at Landing Strip definitely has a different story to tell. She makes $1k/night and is about 22yrs. old in her first year of dancing. a fresh face and not much expenses or cares in the world. She let's her mother save all of her money for her. I think it's in exchange for her to take care of her mom in old age. If this girl stays along this path, I think she'll retire a multi-millionaire by 30.

[nova5]

This is an awesome thread ... Thanks to all who contributed good advice & comments.
--

I totally agree! I too am amazed at how much I am learning from reading this thread.

[jetfuel]

@ Splooge - did u say your partner might go into escorting.??? How do you feel about that?

[ultraviolet]

A friend of mine in SoCal owns a strip club and has been in the business for the better part of almost 15 years. A couple of years ago I asked him that after seeing thousands upon thousands of girls go through his club, how many did he meet that actually saved their money and retired financially independent.

His answer, and I quote, "2".

[fatck]

Any transaction over $5k is guaranteed to raise suspicion. Any pattern of transactions under $5k that look like they are intentionally trying to avoid the $5k reporting limit will certainly raise eyebrows.

From a savings point of view what is more likely to raise suspicion is a large balance. Eventually the CRA will notice. Maybe not for several years, but they can audit you back several years into the past (5-10 depending), and if they audit you for one year, odds are thy will look back several previous years.

I would recommend that an SP declare at least a large portion of her income and put it in the bank. First, the business isn't illegal, and the CRA isn't going to come and lecture you on your lifestyle, and they'll keep the record secret. Second, you could just list it as "self employment income" and put down "entertainer" or something, you don't have to be specific, and CRA won't really care either, so long as you report it.

You could then save maybe half the money you reported in a proper investment account or something. You also would be able to write off all sorts of business expenses--if you rent a place to entertain clients, or your car, clothes you buy for the job, money you spend advertising, paying drivers, food while you are working, etc., you can write that all off, so taxes are going to be lower than you think.

This industry is *legal* in Canada, and there are generous deductions available for small business owners, which is what all you SP's really are, so taxes are not really the big problem you think they are. Get an accountant who is open minded and file something. Maybe not 100% of your income, but enough that you can have real savings in the bank.

Kacy, this is a lot easier than you think, you have nothing to be ashamed of about your job, and you have a great opportunity to save a lot of money if you do this right. It won't take you long to get it set up, and you'll be able to breathe freely wrt CRA, etc.

A smart cookie

[fatck]

One of the guys in my company grosses over $1million a year but is always broke. Why? He has to keep up appearances. Big house. A trophy spendthrift wife. 3 big cars. 4 kids attending U.S. universities, each with their own car. Plus, he spends over $100,000 a year on his mistress (condo, car, fur coats, etc.).

I started a thread about how SP's got their start in this business about a year or so ago. One SP said she was homeless so decided to get into this business to make money. Paid off all her debts. Then with the help of a nice client bought an agency which is now one of the largest in the GTA. If you can find that thread, you will also find out who is this lady.

BTW I think almost everybody is broke. I put some items up for sale on CL. 98% of the enqueries came from people who had no money but lots of time to call people like me trying to sell some stuff for money.

Totally agree with your points. You can be broke in any situation. I know at least 2 of my colleagues (as SPs in the other side) who work in this business for paying off their student loan. If you have a chance to work in the medical service, you will know some their stories.

Link: http://www.straight.com/article-320014/vancouver/debate-sheds-light-students-sex-work
http://menmedia.co.uk/news/s/51/51316_students_in_debt_sign_up_as_escorts.html

[Rockslinger]

His answer, and I quote, "2".

I don't think the answer would be that different in the civilian world. Even celebrities who made big bucks end up broke. Corey Heim died broke. Spencer Pratt is broke and living off his credit cards. Greece is broke. Spain is broke. Sorry, I digress. As I mentioned previously, I placed an ad in CL to sell some items and 99% of the people who called had no money.

[fatck]

I sure hope they do. I have met a number of young women who have impressed me not only with their beauty but with their intelligence. I really do hope that they see this as an opportunity to pay for school or whatever and that it is a step along the way rather than the destination or career. Who knows whether they are telling me the truth but most seem to be in school or taking courses or whatever. Then again i believe them when they tell me that I look young and that i am great looking.

Good for you, man. Those pretty ladies seem crash on you...lol.

[ultraviolet]

I don't think the answer would be that different in the civilian world. Even celebrities who made big bucks end up broke. Corey Heim died broke. Spencer Pratt is broke and living off his credit cards. Greece is broke. Spain is broke. Sorry, I digress. As I mentioned previously, I placed an ad in CL to sell some items and 99% of the people who called had no money.
I think the difference is, the average person doesn't have the salary to save $100-200K/year after tax and living expenses (as per Emm's estimate earlier in this thread), which when you back out taxes and living expenses, would be like earning a $200-400K salary. We're talking a Senior to Executive VP level salary at a Fortune 500 company.

[fatck]

No it is not incorperated, it is a sole proprietorship

The steps to get to that location are done over the phone which is also private. Public solicitation is illegal.

My business is registerd as escort services.

I am not hiding anything.

Anyway I will be claiming it as other income now, makes things alot easier.

You are the wisest lady in this industry

[fatck]

sarcasm lol

Bazinga...lolz

[Emm]

Im not about to get into everything on an open forum, but there's much more to it than meets the eye.

What I do works and you can dispute it all you would like. There are much smarter people working on it then yourselves.

My total income each year matches the assets that I do/will have.

There will be no reason for an audit and IF they were to audit then I would be prepared.

That is just how it is. I'm sorry for offending the two of you but I don't really appreciate the sarcastic remarks.

[fatck]

Im not about to get into everything on an open forum, but there's much more to it than meets the eye.

What I do works and you can dispute it all you would like. There are much smarter people working on it then yourselves.

My total income each year matches the assets that I do/will have.

There will be no reason for an audit and IF they were to audit then I would be prepared.

That is just how it is. I'm sorry for offending the two of you but I don't really appreciate the sarcastic remarks.

I'm apologized on my rude behavior. I just want to make a joke with k1...that's all...not thing particular...please forgive

[Shelly_Melly]

Im too cheap!! I save too much...should spend more!

[Rockslinger]

Im too cheap!! I save too much...should spend more!

Please listen to your "older self". SAVE! SAVE! SAVE! You won't be young and pretty forever.

[Rockslinger]

would be like earning a $200-400K salary. We're talking a Senior to Executive VP level salary at a Fortune 500 company.

Even many civilians making $300,000 a year still manage to piss it all away (wine, women and song).

[Tokyo Heights]

The percentage is alarmingly small, and shocking when you get to know, as most SP's, MPA's & SC Strippers whom i have known for year's are always broke and just cribbing for more money everytime i meet them, except one girl who shall be retiring next year has a good bank balance and she is about to buy her own house, and start her business as per her plans, and is working pretty hard these day's to complete her taget to have a comfortable life for herself and her family for the years to come, & i truly salute this girl for the hard work she has put in for years togather! She is a well balanced lady in her life and knows the financial descipline, that is why succes is very close to her, i wish her all the best for all her future endeavours in her life, but for me she is is my good friend toady, & would be my friend for life in future too:cool:

[splooge]

@ Splooge - did u say your partner might go into escorting.??? How do you feel about that?

mixed feelings... i want to provide her with independence to do as she wishes, but also that's my piece of poon! but, like she keeps warning me- i wasn't the first and won't be the last... :rolleyes:

[Rockslinger]

like she keeps warning me- i wasn't the first and won't be the last...

You could always switch to a religion where the men "own" their women lock, stock, barrel and pussy.

[Emm]

Well that was an ambitious statement --- when it comes to money I doubt you are speaking to someone smarter than myself --- well if you are you're not listening to them properly. Clearly you just wish to be antagonistic and not listen to any kind of reason --- the above statement shows your financial illiteracy and as such think this entitles you to be some kind of smart ass. Have fun with what your doing, it's going to bite you in the rear.


kf1

You do not know what I am doing in full detail. For all you know I give all of my money to a major construction company, and they cut my cheques. Then spend the money on materials.

Or put it through the casino and grab a big fat cheque tax free.

There is 10000 ways to show your income when you deal with cash and 10000 ways to manipulate it.

It doesn't matter where it comes from, the CRA just wants a piece of my body.

as a side note - I would not be stupid enough to put exactly what is going on here, these are purely examples.

[Brill]

I think sweet Emm should start up her own construction company just so she can wear a tool belt with her too-small t-shirt, ripped jeans and a hard hat.
Emm's Erections Inc. would be fitting.

Insert "hard hat" smilie, tee hee.

[Emm]

I think sweet Emm should start up her own construction company just so she can wear a tool belt with her too-small t-shirt, ripped jeans and a hard hat.
Emm's Erections Inc. would be fitting.

Insert "hard hat" smilie, tee hee.

lol you are too much.

[Emm]

Keep posting and someone will report you to the CRA lol. Anyways that's not how your original post came out --- you attempted to look like you found a very easy and legitimate way of laundring money and from this post you have now just suggested the very obvious ways people attempt to clean up funds --- trust me everyone including LE knows of the ways you just suggested --- being as public as you are about it, just shows me how uninformed and naive on the subject you really are.


kf1

I never said that I did any of thoes.

KF1 I do have a legitimate way of doing things, What I said in my last post was to show you have no idea what could potentially be going on.

what makes you think I am not already on CRA watch? I am in the system with the sex crimes unit (toronto police) They have me down in their system as a Sex worker. I would just assume the info is passed on to make sure I am paying my taxes. (along with every other girl in the industry)

By you telling me I am LAUNGERING money, it shows how naieve you are.

"Money laundering is the process used to disguise the source of money or assets derived from criminal activity." - from the link you posted

What Criminal activity am I involved in?

The sad part is you have a 19 year old girl educating you right now, it wont sink in because you are too stuborn to admit you are wrong.

If you were right, 99% of sex workers and agencies would be in jail right now.

Until you start sucking dick for a living and understand fully the laws surrounding it, then dont come on here and preach how naieve I am.

as for anyone who would like to report me to CRA feel free, It would be nice to get my audit over and done with :)

[Rockslinger]

I am in the system with the sex crimes unit (toronto police)

Hope this doesn't mean they consider you a menace to society. Hee, hee, hee. Seriously, you have a lot of street smarts for a 19 year old. Definitely a lot more than I did when I was 19. You'll do fine in this life. Just don't fall for too many "muscle boys" like my dancer friends.

[Emm]

Hope this doesn't mean they consider you a menace to society. Hee, hee, hee. Seriously, you have a lot of street smarts for a 19 year old. Definitely a lot more than I did when I was 19. You'll do fine in this life. Just don't fall for too many "muscle boys" like my dancer friends.

No muscle boys their too into themselves and not enough me :P

[Santa905]

This use to be a good thread - What happened? It all went to pot.

[JimmyDeals]

Oh boy... interesting thread... everyone is an expert! If someone says that they have a legitimate way of conducting their operations, then what is "up" with hammering away with questions??? It is not like "all" can be revealed/discussed in an open forum. As a side note, I personally know a few girls that are very savvy with their money, done really well, did not let the party lifestyle get the best of them, and yes - operate legitimately.

[fatck]

This use to be a good thread - What happened? It all went to pot.

It seems to become an argument between 2 people...

[ultraviolet]

It doesn't matter where it comes from, the CRA just wants a piece of my body.
CRA wants a piece of everyone's body.

CRA is the John that barges in, puts a gun to your face and demands PSE CIMSW GREEK and then says you can keep part of the money you already have and leaves you a bad review on TERB.

[EJ543]

Some interesting posts here..

I agree with 2 posts - one by Unshavencuban..I recognize many well known SP's hanging out in the club district where I sometimes work...they are always hanging around loser types of guys(some of them I know quite well through the work) who are into drugs, pretending to be a 'big-shot' gangster, no money but getting a huge loan to drive a BMW etc etc..and it is true..some of them can't even spell their own names!

Also, a post by Kacy...does revenue canada have access to bank account details?..I thought that this was covered under the data privacy act or something? and I didn't know that your social insurance number etc had to be declared when opening a bank account. I have a savings account and earn some interest but how many of you actually declare this interest on your tax return? there are lots of people with lots of money in their bank accounts - why should they be audited?

Just so you would know CRA does have the authority to look at your bank accounts. The interest in your bank account is matched to your return and the duplicate slip sent by the bank to CRA. As long as the interest matches the cra doesn't have any reason to audit unless other red flags are indicated in the return.

[EJ543]

obviously you do not know how things work??? - very easy to do!!!!

There are agreements in place for foreign jurisdictions, tax havens or not, however, if your audited and you slip up on anything in your records (little black book or whatever), a search warrant could be issued and if your investigated, (not just audited) ie criminal investigation would ensure, and then it could be painful.

[EJ543]

Nope. Well, yes, if there is a Court order, they have to comply... but they aren't restricted to that. Section 8(2)d of the Privacy Act says that they may release information to the Attorney General of Canada for use in legal proceedings involving the Crown in right of Canada or the Government of Canada. Section 8(2)e allows them to give the information to law enforcement if they ask and describe why (without court order).



It's not automatic - but it isn't illegal. That's just TV myth. Things you tell CRA are not "priviledged"! They CAN be used against you, if there is sufficient reason to do so. Or, more importantly, if you give them reason to WANT to....



Huh? That's exactly who they target for audit. Because that's where most of the "funny business" goes on.

If your business is highly automated and full of paper trails, there isn't much to actually audit....



True. But you don't submit receipts either. The foundation of our tax system is based on self-assessment, and they "trust" you... until you give them reason not to.

If you do get audited (and most businesses do, sooner or later), they are VERY much interested in EXACTLY how you make your money. The reason for this is that they need to know this to assess if any of your deductions are "reasonably required" for having earned that income. Simply stating "Consulting" or "Entertaining" will no longer suffice.

I'm not suggesting that they hide what they do, or not declare income; in fact, I agree with most of what you say. I just think it's important to add the the following:

1. CRA is the Government, and "Privilege" is a myth. Anything you tell them, you should be willing to let the Attorney General or the local police know. Exercise discretion in what you say.
2. Get qualified professional help for your taxes (see Ms. Blue's post/request for ideas)
3. In addition to being careful to what you say, be careful not to create "paper trails" that suggest illegal activities (e.g. trying to deduct condom costs, advertising expenses, and home expenses for entertaining clients might put you on the wrong side of "solicitation" or "bawdy house" charges). It MAY not ever amount to much, but it isn't worth the possiblity.
4. Claim your income, and deduct VALID expenses, but be reasonable (your professional help will guide you here, but a general rule would be to ask yourself if you would believe someone could acually live on the net income that you are claiming)... if you get too aggressive, or try and jerk CRA around, they will respond in kind. And they are much better at it than you can ever be.
5. Never (ever) lie.

CRA has an enforcement section which deals with criminal activities not that an sp is a criminal activity, we are talking about drugs etc. and they work with the RCMP.

[EJ543]

That my friend is BULLSHIT !!! You have to give your Social Insurance # to get a box, and not IF, but WHEN you are audited, the government does a bank account search on you, and guess what, up pops your SAFTEY DEPOSIT BOX, with your money all nice and safe for them to take.....

Absolutely true.

[EJ543]

Actually you should go talk to a lawyer ---- you are claiming your income through a business which I assumed from your post is a corporation. The mere fact that sex between individuals behind close doors is legal, it doesn't mean that all the steps you took to get to that location is, which means that transferring personal income derived from an illegal act to a Corporation is in fact money laundering --- you should read the link I provided.


kf1

Income when declared becomes clean money, that's why a lot of the criminal element operate legitimate business even if the businesses on a stand alone business would be a losing proposition. This way the illegal money can be funneled through the legit businesses and become clean money.

[angel519]

I am only in the business a few short mothes but realize the importance of saving and aim to save 3/4 of what I make each week. Let's face it, Im not going to be this hot or young forever and most sp's should have the same mentality. Also every SP should be thinking of legit business ventures to be either starting or investing in with the capital they earn doing this. Have quite a few friends in the industry all have different ambitions whether it be going to university or opening businesses.

I see a lot of different theories here on the laws and taxes surrounding this issue of the money earned by this profession. Does anyone know the title the professional who can provide me with this kind of consulting. This thread has me intrigued.

[pro123]

Actually, one of the sp approached me before asking how to buy her condo. I guess some of them really know how to save.

[EJ543]

Some interesting posts here..

I agree with 2 posts - one by Unshavencuban..I recognize many well known SP's hanging out in the club district where I sometimes work...they are always hanging around loser types of guys(some of them I know quite well through the work) who are into drugs, pretending to be a 'big-shot' gangster, no money but getting a huge loan to drive a BMW etc etc..and it is true..some of them can't even spell their own names!

Also, a post by Kacy...does revenue canada have access to bank account details?..I thought that this was covered under the data privacy act or something? and I didn't know that your social insurance number etc had to be declared when opening a bank account. I have a savings account and earn some interest but how many of you actually declare this interest on your tax return? there are lots of people with lots of money in their bank accounts - why should they be audited?

The Income Tax Act trumps everything except solicitor client privilege, and you have to prove that is applicable.

[EJ543]

Never go into business with friends or family. If you can, go it alone. Otherwise in most case your in for a world of hurt. If you must, alway have an agreement set up on how to disolve the business if it breaks up. Have everything in writing such as duties, contributions, distributions etc. etc.

[Rockslinger]

Never go into business with friends or family.

Wiser words have never been spoken.

[splooge]

I'm currently helping a dancer/sp become an auto-wholesaler. seems like a good fit for her, it's a very low-overhead business and she's great with sales and being organized. she's hoping to have a legit daylight occupation and dance/sp to a lesser degree to keep her mind 'fresh'. as she describes it: 100's of guys, 6 days a week can wear you down! imo, i don't know how they manage...

[Rockslinger]

100's of guys, 6 days a week ...

Sounds like business is good. What a terrible problem to have.